To dream the liberal dream ...
To quote one of President Barack Obama's idols, the chickens have come home to roost on Obamacare.
Not only has the administration stepped in a mess over mandating contraception (including abortion) insurance, the efficacy of the whole idea that government mandated health coverage somehow magically makes health care cheaper is just pure, provable bunk.
This article, which includes this true quote -- "There is a liberal dream that by mandating coverage the government can make something free" -- provides a good entry point for people with eyes to see and ears to hear.
As much as the president's men will want to steer clear of the rocky shore of reality when it comes to the ship of Obamacare, that baby is hitting the beach.
This entry was posted on Friday, Feb. 10, 2012 at 08:35 AM
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to "To dream the liberal dream ... "
Life is so much simpler if only the Constitution was actually followed by D.C., and if some new power was required by circumstances, the states would amend to delegate that power.
Oh well, so much for the anachronistic ramblings of an blathering neo-conservative...
Oh well, so much for the anachronistic ramblings of an blathering neo-conservative...
Nope - not abortion. That's just a lie.
Why do liberals need to be quoted when the Libertarian propaganda 'think' tank can do a Vulcan mind meld and tell what liberals are thinking? Sink a little lower Shermy and only blatherers like Winnie will bother believing anything you assert.
You know what I would like to have? Health insurance policies that don't cover prostate cancer treatments and heart bypasses. After all, I'm young enough that I really don't need to worry about such things, and I'm sick and tired of my insurance premium going to cover super-expensive prostate cancer and heart bypass procedures. Think how much cheaper my insurance would be!
Of course, there are some people who might be disadvantaged if everyone who was unlikely to need prostate or heart bypass procedures for several decades suddenly dropped out of the insurance pool.
But so what? Am I my brother's keeper?
Of course, there are some people who might be disadvantaged if everyone who was unlikely to need prostate or heart bypass procedures for several decades suddenly dropped out of the insurance pool.
But so what? Am I my brother's keeper?
Where is the out rage that it covers the little blue pill? Oh thats for men so it's ok....or sherm do you need it?
Let's see....every year the government gets more and more involved with healthcare and managing it and every year it gets more and more expensive while delivering less and less and less.
Yes, we are approaching nirvana in health care with ObamaCrap taking us one step closer.
Soon there will be like 1 doctor per 100,000 patients and you will be luckly to get a hip replacement within 2 years or needing it.
But it will be "for free" but the price of milk with be $50 a gallon because the taxes needed to fund the crappy health care system the government will run.
Government can't run a kool-aid stand without tons of red tape with over paid workers that put in like 10% effort that never can get fired.
Oh my God......
Yes, we are approaching nirvana in health care with ObamaCrap taking us one step closer.
Soon there will be like 1 doctor per 100,000 patients and you will be luckly to get a hip replacement within 2 years or needing it.
But it will be "for free" but the price of milk with be $50 a gallon because the taxes needed to fund the crappy health care system the government will run.
Government can't run a kool-aid stand without tons of red tape with over paid workers that put in like 10% effort that never can get fired.
Oh my God......
nope. Health insurance is sold by private companies, and will continue that way under Obamacare. (VA Care is provided by the government, and Medicare is paid for by the government, but those are the two most widely-liked, cost-efficient components of the health care system.)
How much profit did united healthcare and the many other health insurance co make? all those dollars of profit came from the premiuns that the insured paid and are dollars taken from the healthcare that we get....that money would be better spent for acual healthcare not profits and in mosts cases very high profits.....why not return some of that money to the policy holders instead? Why not pay the doctors and other health providers instead....private insurance co turn down procedures all the time...or delay them ...they also limmit medicine that are availible...they spend nothing on research and their number one goal is to make as large a profit as they can.
Mandating contraception insurance... and just where can you get condom insurance?
"Health insurance is sold by private companies" yea.....but Big Government tells them what to cover, how to pay, when to pay and even how much to pay more and more and more and more.
Hey they got to cover the cost of "free rubbers" now.
The cost of premiums go up.
We spend more and more and more.
Add more and more demand.
Suppress the supply of drugs and doctors and equipment.
Yeah..."It is all free market baby!" LOL
Hey they got to cover the cost of "free rubbers" now.
The cost of premiums go up.
We spend more and more and more.
Add more and more demand.
Suppress the supply of drugs and doctors and equipment.
Yeah..."It is all free market baby!" LOL
"those are the two most widely-liked, cost-efficient components of the health care system"
Medicare rations left and right and that will only get worst.
VA is spotty. Some places are great and some places are nighmares and some guys have to travel some 600 miles to get care.
VA care is not cheap either. That cost the goverment a ton of dough which they are now looking to slash.
Medicare rations left and right and that will only get worst.
VA is spotty. Some places are great and some places are nighmares and some guys have to travel some 600 miles to get care.
VA care is not cheap either. That cost the goverment a ton of dough which they are now looking to slash.
Yes, Sgt. Rock, governments (state governments) tell health insurers what they must cover with their policies. In part, that is to keep folks from getting screwed by the fine print. But it is also to avoid the phenomenon of "adverse selection." If I could choose a policy that didn't cover prostate cancer treatment and bypass surgery I probably would so so, since that would bring my premiums down. (I would waive the right to gyn and obstetrics coverage as well, since I don't have a uterus.) Of course, that would screw poor Sherman Frederick, since if the young guys all took the cheapo plans Mr. Frederick's premiums would become unimaginably high. And women would be on the short end as well, as they usually are.
As healthcare economists have been pointing out since 1964, a completely unregulated free market doesn't work in these instances. That's why you need some form of "community rating."
Oh - and those people who complain about "insurance for rubbers" are uninformed jerks. Sorry to be blunt, but that's the truth.
As healthcare economists have been pointing out since 1964, a completely unregulated free market doesn't work in these instances. That's why you need some form of "community rating."
Oh - and those people who complain about "insurance for rubbers" are uninformed jerks. Sorry to be blunt, but that's the truth.
Since I read publications and websites that contain information that I don't necessarily agree with (I like to be informed of what other people think, not just what I think), I found this fascinating: http://www.theroot.com/buzz/obamas-birth-control-rule-was-law-during-bush-years.
All first world countries provide universal health care coverage to their citizens. The longevity of the citizens of these countries is much higher than in America. These are facts, Sgt. Rock. I do not know if facts influence your thinking but there is much more, Sgt.
In terms of quality of health care, the USA is ranked 37th by the World Health Organization. Nearly 50 million Americans do not currently have health insurance and ~44,000 Americans die each year as a result of not having health insurance. Last year over 900,000 Americans declared bankruptcy as a result of medical bills. We are the only 1st world country where citizens fear medical bills.
We spend twice as much per capita on health care than any other country in the world and have such a spotty health care system.
You do not see this as a problem, Sgt. Rock? What is the Sgt. Rock solution to address these issues?
The readers of this blog are waiting for your solution.
In terms of quality of health care, the USA is ranked 37th by the World Health Organization. Nearly 50 million Americans do not currently have health insurance and ~44,000 Americans die each year as a result of not having health insurance. Last year over 900,000 Americans declared bankruptcy as a result of medical bills. We are the only 1st world country where citizens fear medical bills.
We spend twice as much per capita on health care than any other country in the world and have such a spotty health care system.
You do not see this as a problem, Sgt. Rock? What is the Sgt. Rock solution to address these issues?
The readers of this blog are waiting for your solution.
Sherm, did you see this in the news?
Nevada State Bar Investigating Copyright-Troll Righthaven
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/01/bar-eyeing-righthaven/
Nevada State Bar Investigating Copyright-Troll Righthaven
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/01/bar-eyeing-righthaven/
...and I thought that you were having problems with "your little friend" as a result of your health issues.
Silly me!
Silly me!
"Our nation has a uniquely tragic experience for an industrialized nation: 40 to 50 million people have no medical or dental care. During 2010, cable networks (with exception for Fox News) reported that the top 10 insurance companies in the nation enjoyed a 428% profit margin over the previous ten-year period."
The myths about Obamacare:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/12/08/the-myths-about-obamacare/
The myths about Obamacare:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/12/08/the-myths-about-obamacare/
Mike makes a good point. We spend more per capita and still the system is inadequate. Does anyone believe having the govt. control it will make it more efficient and cost effective? It's kind of like education. We spend more than any country yet our kids are not in the top 15 of industrialized nations. Maybe throwing money at our problems isn't the answer?
to "larry lewis": the problem with your argument is that every one of our peer nations has some form of universal healthcare with significant government involvement, yet spends a fraction per capita of what we spend, have equal if not better health care systems. (Ask anyone who has gotten sick in France!)
If you doubt that, here is the link to the statistics on how our system stacks up to everyone else's:
http://www.oecd.org/document/30/0,3343,en_2649_34631_12968734_1_1_1_1,00.html
And here is a link to a Commonwealth Fund study that ranks the U.S. dead last among all industrial nations in "amenable mortatlity" - that is, deaths that are preventable with timely and effective health care.
http://content.healthaffairs.org/ cgi/content/abstract/27/1/58?ijk ey=05uD000683MNE&keytype =ref&siteid=healthaff
How do they manage to spend so much less per capita, get better results, and yet get all of their citizens under the insurance umbrella?
If you doubt that, here is the link to the statistics on how our system stacks up to everyone else's:
http://www.oecd.org/document/30/0,3343,en_2649_34631_12968734_1_1_1_1,00.html
And here is a link to a Commonwealth Fund study that ranks the U.S. dead last among all industrial nations in "amenable mortatlity" - that is, deaths that are preventable with timely and effective health care.
http://content.healthaffairs.org/ cgi/content/abstract/27/1/58?ijk ey=05uD000683MNE&keytype =ref&siteid=healthaff
How do they manage to spend so much less per capita, get better results, and yet get all of their citizens under the insurance umbrella?
Due to the steady economic improvement his leadership has brought, President Obama's poll numbers are climbing, while his GOP opponents take turns stumbling from one pile of dog doo to the next.
So now, with their sad realization that another thumping is coming, right-wingers are cheering like kids on the last day of school after the president made a change on the contraception issue.
Whoopee! They can't believe their good luck. Finally, a victory and it took only three years. Break out the Champagne!
I'm in the spin zone! The Manchurian Candidate is on TV backpedalling on his mandated abortions. I knew he'd eat $hit on this one. Food for thought-Do you think TMC would have reversed himself on this if he wasn't up for re-election?
I should have known better than to engage in a dialogue with this guy.
Pete,
Sometimes a 'punch in the head' is the only logical response.
Sometimes a 'punch in the head' is the only logical response.
Just to make sure there is no more attempts to cloud the issue by My Children of the Left, the "morning after" pill is without any doubt classified as abortion, not contraception.
Ah, so when Sherman Frederick says that the Obama Administration is mandating insurance coverage for abortions, he is referring only to morning after pills that prevent the blastocyte from implanting in the uterus.
Of course, by these standards, most IVF procedures result in abortions. Makes sense -- I've always suspected that going after IVF was on the to-do list, once Plan B pills were banned.
Of course, by these standards, most IVF procedures result in abortions. Makes sense -- I've always suspected that going after IVF was on the to-do list, once Plan B pills were banned.
LIBERAL DREAM + BARRY = MISERY FOR ALL;)
By that definition Sherm, a miscarriage is an abortion. Will your Abortion Police arrest a woman who miscarriages?
Since you ain't a doctor, we will all assume you have been drinking again this morning, and per usual, are making things up you know nothing about.
Since you ain't a doctor, we will all assume you have been drinking again this morning, and per usual, are making things up you know nothing about.
I also don't think Sherman Frederick realizes that by his logic an IUD, as a contragestative, is also an abortion device.
Guess he wants to go after that as well.
Guess he wants to go after that as well.
Not only has the administration stepped in a mess over mandating contraception (including abortion) insurance, the efficacy of the whole idea that government mandated health coverage somehow magically makes health care cheaper is just pure, provable bunk.
Yet it's fact. But you go ahead and show us your "provable" bunk. I'm sorry to see you've gone to the point that you're outright lying, now.
Yet it's fact. But you go ahead and show us your "provable" bunk. I'm sorry to see you've gone to the point that you're outright lying, now.
Sherm...why so often (usually) is it men who write about taking womens right to medical care away....just can't help your selves ...want to keep women in their place....barefoot and pregnant? In this day and age BC is used by almost every women..and that isn't going to change. So why should it not be included in healthcare....how about birth should that be included? The young women who use BC can't always afford it...would you rather they quite their jobs and go on welfare when they get pregnant....it"s not like the man will have to make that choice!!!! Even if he stays around. The morning after pill is not abortion (unless your a personhood nut)it prevents you from getting pregnant and is ment to be a back up if your choice fails.....as I've said before if men had to carry a baby term..we wouldn't even be having this dicussion....and there would be a lot less childern in the world.
petey, did you get my tickets to the big game, tomorrow? I'm looking forward to it, I deserve it, and you have the money to pay for it, right?
Next to Tark. Please post and leave the tickets at will call.
No thanks, necessary, right, petey? This is YOUR new America.
Get me my tickets!
Next to Tark. Please post and leave the tickets at will call.
No thanks, necessary, right, petey? This is YOUR new America.
Get me my tickets!
Use ØbamaMoney! From his ØbamaStash!
Or call up Harry THE CROOK Reid. HE'S got connections!
This is very important for Father/Son relations, petey.
Don't let me down.
Or call up Harry THE CROOK Reid. HE'S got connections!
This is very important for Father/Son relations, petey.
Don't let me down.
Sherm, if you're going to resort to the "every sperm is sacred" argument ... where do you want to turn yourself in on the murder charges?
To "athos" - I really have no idea what you are talking about.
Don't go Republican on me NOW petey! For my proper mental health, and the all important Father/ Son bond, I need to go to the UNLV game tomorrow at 1pm.
You need to pay for it (because I have better things to do with my money, and you're obviously richer than I am)
That's the Øbama Way, petey. That's the Liberal way. The collective pays for the needs of the individual.
So don't pull this "I don't know what you're talking about" stuff.
Get my tickets (next to Tark!) and have them under Athos at will Call.
You need to pay for it (because I have better things to do with my money, and you're obviously richer than I am)
That's the Øbama Way, petey. That's the Liberal way. The collective pays for the needs of the individual.
So don't pull this "I don't know what you're talking about" stuff.
Get my tickets (next to Tark!) and have them under Athos at will Call.
I need a new pair of running shoes and if I dont get them, I may get shin splints, there fore I believe Obama should mandate that private insurance companies cover running shoes. come to think of it I could use a new carbon fiber bicycle also.
Nancy - I imagine YOU are grateful the "little blue pill" exists.
Gee, nancy, you really aren't playing the male v. female argument on abortions? Wow, I thought that went out in the 1980's. Most of the women I know are against abortions, probably more so than the men.
Only my liberal followers can equate abortion with a miscarriage and think it's a good argument. Sigh and sigh again.
to "athos": I am not interested in paying for your basketball tickets. Why should I?
I do recognize, however, that my insurance premium may end up being used to pay for your hemorrhoidectomy.
I do recognize, however, that my insurance premium may end up being used to pay for your hemorrhoidectomy.
Is that real ? a hemoroidectomy, cause I actually need one of those.
petey, I'm glad you agree that the collective should not pay for all the frills that everybody wants. (Of course, one man's frills are another man's necessity- like UNLV basketball tickets, next to Tark would be therapeutic to the nth degree! and therefore, a necessity)
Maybe there's hope for you yet.
I'm not on Medicaid or Medicare, petey. I doubt your insurance will have to pay for any of my treatments.
Maybe there's hope for you yet.
I'm not on Medicaid or Medicare, petey. I doubt your insurance will have to pay for any of my treatments.
To Athos:
1. You believe that the need of a working class woman for contraception is exactly the same as your need for UNLV tickets. I admit that that seems to be the Republican position these days. I happen to have a different view.
2. If you are on a private insurance plan, every other customer of your insurer is paying for your neuro-hemoroidectomy. Why should they do that? Why not let people exclude from their own insurance coverage those procedures that they are not likely to need in the near future? I don't think I need coverage for prostate or heart bypass treatment - why should it be a part of my insurance plan?
1. You believe that the need of a working class woman for contraception is exactly the same as your need for UNLV tickets. I admit that that seems to be the Republican position these days. I happen to have a different view.
2. If you are on a private insurance plan, every other customer of your insurer is paying for your neuro-hemoroidectomy. Why should they do that? Why not let people exclude from their own insurance coverage those procedures that they are not likely to need in the near future? I don't think I need coverage for prostate or heart bypass treatment - why should it be a part of my insurance plan?
"Mandating contraception" Sherman? Outright lie. Seems the Republicans understated President Obama again and he ‘outfoxed’ them once more. Now the poor Christian businesses (that don’t pay taxes like other businesses), don’t have to pay for their women employees’ birth control pills. Many of which take them on doctor’s orders to help prevent ovarian cancer, and other problems; just like insurance paying for pills and medical advice for men for their prostrate health. Gee, equal rights for women has always been a thorn in the Republican’s side.
The USA Military gave out 6 government issue condoms a week to troops during WWII. Now the prude in the GOP want to issue chastity belts to women.
petey, #1. who gets to decide what's a necessity and what isn't? Isn't that the rub? Whether it's WMDs in Iraq, or contraceptives for women, or $500 million for a solar company, who gets to weld that power?
#2. You are talking about YOUR insurance paying for MY pretend procedure. I PAY for my medical insurance. And it's NOT Medicaid or Medicare.
How 'bout you?
And I'm terribly disappointed in not having those tickets for the game.
Just like a liberal. All talk and no action. It's just a whole different ball game when IT'S YOUR OWN MONEY YOU HAVE TO SPEND, eh petey?
#2. You are talking about YOUR insurance paying for MY pretend procedure. I PAY for my medical insurance. And it's NOT Medicaid or Medicare.
How 'bout you?
And I'm terribly disappointed in not having those tickets for the game.
Just like a liberal. All talk and no action. It's just a whole different ball game when IT'S YOUR OWN MONEY YOU HAVE TO SPEND, eh petey?
to "athos": I have some news for you. Your insurance premiums did not cover the cost of your expensive and extesive cranio-hemoroidectomy. The cost was shared with every other policyholder of your health insurance company. Are premiums are higher because of a procedure you needed that many of us had no need for. In similar fashion, younger, healthier policyholders of Mr. Frederick's insurance company have paid higher premiums for his cancer and cardio procedures.
That is how insurance works. If each person can decide which procedures they will pay risk premiums against, the entire insurance system falls apart. If men and post-menopausal women can decide to decline coverage for obstetric and pre-natal care, now woman of child-bearing age will be able to afford health insurance. If women and men in their 20s can decide not to get coverage for prostate cancer, the cost for geazers like you will become completely unaffordable. That is how insurance works.
As for whether contraceptives and contragestatives such as IUDs should be covered by health insurance, that decision was based on recommendations by the experts at the National Insititute of Medicine.
That is how insurance works. If each person can decide which procedures they will pay risk premiums against, the entire insurance system falls apart. If men and post-menopausal women can decide to decline coverage for obstetric and pre-natal care, now woman of child-bearing age will be able to afford health insurance. If women and men in their 20s can decide not to get coverage for prostate cancer, the cost for geazers like you will become completely unaffordable. That is how insurance works.
As for whether contraceptives and contragestatives such as IUDs should be covered by health insurance, that decision was based on recommendations by the experts at the National Insititute of Medicine.
How about Obama and the U.S. government quit telling private business (insurance company) what to sell ?
Insurance is merely covering your bets. Hedging, if you will. And that's why insurance companies employ math majors to work actuarial tables to determine WHAT THE RISK IS.
Subsequently, if every driver that operates a car, was involved in a serious wreck, no one would be able to afford car insurance, petey. But with car insurance, no policy I've ever owned, payed for oil changes.
Hmmm. What up with that, phony liberal?
Subsequently, if every driver that operates a car, was involved in a serious wreck, no one would be able to afford car insurance, petey. But with car insurance, no policy I've ever owned, payed for oil changes.
Hmmm. What up with that, phony liberal?
to "athos": actually, that is not how health insurance works, as Kenneth Arrow pointed out in 1964. In any event, it is irrelevant. Unless health insurance covers a broad spectrum of conditions across a broad spectrum of the population the principles of risk selection and adverse selection will lead to a breakdown in the system. That is why (to answer Lester) the We the People, through our elected representatives, promulgate "community rating" regulations, and specify what minimums must be included in health plans.
but you really don't care about all this complicated policy stuff. I bet it makes your head hurt. You just don't see why insurance should cover contraceptves (and contragestives like IUDs and the morning after pill,) since you don't see what that has to do with women's health. You think it is just like an oil change on a car. that is a really, really unfortunate analogy, don't you agree?
but you really don't care about all this complicated policy stuff. I bet it makes your head hurt. You just don't see why insurance should cover contraceptves (and contragestives like IUDs and the morning after pill,) since you don't see what that has to do with women's health. You think it is just like an oil change on a car. that is a really, really unfortunate analogy, don't you agree?
I dont think it would be difficult for women to keep a rubber or two in their purse, that way morning after pills or abortions would not be needed. Wait, there I go thinking about personal responsibilities again.
Petenyc do you also blame McDonalds for making Americans fat ?
Petenyc do you also blame McDonalds for making Americans fat ?
Lester's comment tells you all you need to know.
A smart republican would drive home the fact to state employees that since the passing of Obamacare, STATE OF NEVADA workers now pay TRIPLE the cost of insurance with LESS coverage then they did prior to Obamacare. This is a fact that will lose democrats standings within the state employee base. Federal intrusion always impacts the middle class MORE than the poor or rich. ALWAYS.
I truly doubt the factual claims made by "deep thoughts."
And I wonder if people on Medicare agree with his assertion that "Federal intrusion always impacts the middle class MORE than the poor or rich. ALWAYS."
And I wonder if people on Medicare agree with his assertion that "Federal intrusion always impacts the middle class MORE than the poor or rich. ALWAYS."
Pete, I pay for medicare yet I do not recieve medicare and pay for private insurance at the same time. How does that help me as the middle class?
Ask any state employee if their healthcare has tripled in price the last three years with less coverage. When you find the answer, try to spin that into a positive for democrats.
Ask any state employee if their healthcare has tripled in price the last three years with less coverage. When you find the answer, try to spin that into a positive for democrats.
I am a state employee.
Yes, increased cost.
Yes, decreased coverage.
Yes, increased cost.
Yes, decreased coverage.
Find out what Davie-boy Plouffe wants you to say, now, petey.
Maybe you can quote a little David Arrow from 1964.
Or better yet, talk to an actual insurance agent about statistics! If we had let the banks eat all their brilliant derivative swaps, we'd be out of this recession by now.
Oops! Did I just try to equate credit default swaps with insurance?
Silly me!
Maybe you can quote a little David Arrow from 1964.
Or better yet, talk to an actual insurance agent about statistics! If we had let the banks eat all their brilliant derivative swaps, we'd be out of this recession by now.
Oops! Did I just try to equate credit default swaps with insurance?
Silly me!
It is "Kenneth" Arrow.
according to the Tax Policy Center, going back to Bill Clinton tax rates would cut $3.7 trillion from the deficit.
Nycpete - Is that assuming our congress wouldnt just spend the extra revenue ? Is Harry still dreaming of a train to Victorville ?
Nice spin, loser. What time frame would we save $3.7 T? 50 years?
And if we return to BJ's tax cuts, can we also get rid of the illegal aliens that have invaded our country since the 1990s?
Why, at this point, I'd like to return to Jorge's $100 billion deficits!
And if we return to BJ's tax cuts, can we also get rid of the illegal aliens that have invaded our country since the 1990s?
Why, at this point, I'd like to return to Jorge's $100 billion deficits!
Arrow used to make some nice shirts.
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