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Couple accused of dice sliding at Wynn Las Vegas
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LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
Updated: Oct. 1, 2011 | 7:38 a.m.
While many craps aficionados scoff at the idea that a player can effectively control the roll of the dice, Wynn Las Vegas has become a believer.
The Strip resort has filed a lawsuit in Clark County District Court against frequent customers Leonardo Fernandez and Veronica Dabul, both Argentine nationals, asking for the return of about $700,000 Wynn officials say they illegally won during a monthlong cheating spree that ended with their arrest on July 18.
The two are suspected of working with several unidentified customers who placed bets or distracted dealers and are accused of pulling off their gambit by using an infrequently seen technique known as dice sliding.
As the name implies, dice sliding involves sliding at least one of the dice across the table after positioning it in the hand so that the desired number, generally a six, remains face up.
No one claims that sliding, also called scooting, can deliver exact numbers, but skilled sliders can considerably shorten their odds of winning.
Dabul was released after two days in the Clark County Detention Center. Fernandez was turned over to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Service on July 25. Immigration officials could not say what Fernandez's current status was late Friday.
The district attorney has not filed charges against either.
Although sliding cases have come up in the past, few have been reported in recent years to the Nevada Gaming Control Board, which had the two arrested.
"It's not a common form of cheating because it involves a considerable amount of skill and practice," said Jerry Markling, the board's enforcement chief.
Although not familiar with the lawsuit, he said the $700,000 that Wynn claims it lost was a "relatively large sum. It is unusual for cheaters to be able to win that much."
Alan Mendelson, a former Los Angeles television reporter who has covered gaming issues and now runs a consumer finance website, said he was surprised by the Wynn lawsuit.
"Dice sliding is so obvious that it is easy to stop," he said. "It makes no sense they could get away with that much money unless they had inside help."
Without closely examining details that have not been released, such as how many slides the two engaged in, over the period of time they were spread, or the size of the bets, University of Nevada, Las Vegas gaming professor Anthony Lucas was reluctant to finger employees as complicit.
"I would tend to doubt it," he said, in part because many legitimate dice rolls come up short of the back wall, a key component of sliding.
Many sliding cases remain unknown because the casino quietly shows the players the exit, Lucas said.
A Wynn official declined to comment on the matter. But according to court papers, "Wynn Las Vegas justifiably relied on the defendants' conduct," as people who visited the property several times and took care to stay apart.
This time, Fernandez checked into the Wynn on June 3, and Dabul arrived at the adjoining Encore on June 12. They did not always play together, and Fernandez did not bet on his own slides, the lawsuit said.
When they won $145,000 on seven slides on the night of July 17, alarm bells went off within Wynn management and caused them to review the tapes, according to the lawsuit. They then called in the gaming board, which arrested the two the next day.
A legal roll is one in which the dice tumble so that their face up becomes random, said David Salas, the gaming board's deputy enforcement chief. Other gaming experts have listed three components to a valid roll: tossing the dice in the air, having them bounce and then rebound off the back wall.
If a boxman at a craps table sees a roll that doesn't conform, he can call a "no roll."
Lucas and other experts say the case for sliding is relatively simple. Two sixes, known by names such as boxcars or midnight, pay out at 30-to-1. But ensuring that just one die comes up a six greatly improves the chances of the 30-to-1 payout, even if the other die is tossed at random.
That spread keeps the odds in the player's favor even if several slides misfire.
Also, Lucas said, a successful slide eliminates any number below seven, so sliders will bet eight, nine or ten among other strategies.
"What scooting does is change the expected value of a bet from negative to positive," Lucas said.
Still, Mendelson, a frequent visitor to Las Vegas for years, said he had seen a slide only once. The player had been on an extended losing streak when he pulled off only one slide that cut his losses slightly, so Mendelson assumed the boxman let it go.
Fernandez, of Buenos Aires, had visited the Wynn on at least 39 occasions over the years, according to hotel records, staying anywhere from two days to two months and often playing craps.
Dabul came once or twice a year for several weeks at a time, playing blackjack and baccarat in addition to craps.
According to what Wynn officials were able to piece together, the two built their winnings in steps over the early summer, working with other people. The court papers depict them as playing different tables, in different teams, with at least one trying to distract people working at the table during slides.
Contact reporter Tim O'Reiley at toreiley@reviewjournal.com or 702-387-5290.
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It looks as if 95 percent of the commenters are on the side of the criminals. What most of you don't realize is that not only did the casino lose money, but also the other players on the game that were placing different bets than the cheaters. As a casino supervisor I absolutely do not care who wins or who loses. In my 11 years I have never been repremanded for a player winning, nor have I ever been rewarded for a player losing. My main concern is whether the game is being played fairly. The house doesn't have to cheat. No one is forcing anyone to gamble. People know the odds are in the houses favor when the walk in the door. Cheaters have been around forever, and there not going away anytime soon. Just remember that the casino isn't the only ones being cheated.
A casino is a business that relies on the "costs" of it's business to be predictable over the long term. That's how every business in the world functions. The costs being physical costs of buildings and operations plus the cost based on the expected outcome of wagers in the casino over a very long period of time.
They provide a service to the public: entertainment and the chance to win money, in exchange for the advantage in the games of chance they offer to which they use the expected outcome to determine their cost. This is no different than a department store taking the cost of their product and multiplying by some markup to sell it at retail price. The only difference is the product.
The gaming control board is there to ensure that all players are treated equally by ensuring the games are truly what the casinos say they are and pay out according to very well regulated formulas. The security and employees are there to ensure the same thing as well as protect the casino's interest in the games going on. When a player effectively cheats by making the game not follow the formulas laid out by the casino and approved by NGCB, they are effectively stealing from the casinos. It's no different then if you walked into a convenience store and stole something. If the security cameras and the guy behind the counter didn't see you take it, it's still illegal. You're effectively cheating the store because you're increasing their costs to do business in an unfair way (in fact you're cheating others who buy at the same store just like what this couple has done to the other people who game in Las Vegas). You shouldn't be supporting these people. You should be condemning them for cheating you and the rest of the visitors we're lucky to have in this city.
I see alot of comments that say "Fire the Surveillance Department" or "The Surveillance Dept was incompetent." Are you kidding me? Have any of you ever worked in a Surveillance Department... The casino floor is HUGE. You have 2 or 3 co-workers and you are there to watch EVERY slot machine, EVERY table game.. the Cashier Cage, The Soft Count Room, EVERY gift shop and retail area, EVERYTHING... and you think a Surveillance Crew is incompetent because they didn't happen to be on top of this one craps game during these individual time periods? REALLY?? Do you know how many STUPID phone calls and STUPID reviews a Surveillance Crew MUST answer? Every time a dealer mismarks a roulette number, every time a player claims he didnt get paid right, Surveillance must review video... You think we all just sit around doing nothing? Every time money gets transferred ANYWHERE, Surveillance must cover the transfer in real time... Surveillance is doing ALOT OF WORK that has nothing to do with any of this... EVERY single transaction over $10,000 must get checked by Surveillance... so please KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT before you dump on Surveillance for not being EVERYWHERE at the SAME TIME
Do you have ANY clue what a comma is used for?
twoplays wrote on October 03, 2011 08:45 AM: Please stop the non-sense, Wynn, is in the wrong. Can you believe using a law, "you beat us," and we want our money back. Wynn, uses the gaming control and metro, to strong arm the winners. What happen Wynn, were you not able to ask the players to stop, Wynn saw big money playing and hoped the players would lose their big money, when it didn't happen,..., it was time to call the big thugs, to go get the players,... and arrest them, if Wynn loses, lets arrest the players and freeze their money and assets, and charge them for lawyers, judges and court cost, they will go through, the frozen money.
It's called controlling the random outcome. Cheating.
If they slide a six, it changes the odds drastically in favor of the player. A Field bet pays on 9, 10, 11, & 12 pays double or triple.
You only lose on 7 & 8. Figure the odds.
This is an old East Coast scam, back again I see.
The weird thing is that CASINOS have slot machines that are PROGRAMMED to FAVOR the HOUSE. Slot machines DO PAY OUT but they do so at LESS than CHANCE. Slot machines are ANY casino's main source of revenue. I am sure the slots covered the $700,000 large within a few hours.
To get back to the craps game. If the game went on allowing cheating, with a PIT BOSS physically there, and SECURITY CAMERAS watching from no less than 3 VANTAGE POINTS, over a distinct period of time, then what is REALLY going on? I guess "WYNN'S" should re-name to "LOSE"
Sliding to the point of $700,000 while the employees were "distracted"? Fool me once shame on YOU, fool me a BUNCH of times, WOW that makes me an IDIOT!
When the house wins, it's a game of chance. When you win, you cheated.
Gaming is a joke.
Dice sliding are you kidding me! What a great visual, one six sliding 8 feet on it's ass every 5th roll? "Eye in the sky" on coffee break with security chief? Dealer sweeping the tips, and loses his contact lens and pretends it's luck? Steve has his finger prints all over this investigation and I'm sure if readers only know a fraction of the real story the player is more than gone. Add another chapter to a great palate of Wynn artwork, it doesn't get any better! Skilled players have never been welcomed but tolerated to a point until it's bad bet for the house. Sucker joints keep getting smarter, thanks to Steve who is still 3 moves ahead suckers and most corp owners. Another classic story, thanks for the drama and theatircs!
This is not cheating. If the Wynn dealers and supervisors were so inept that they couldn't prevent someone who is skillful enough to slide the dice in this manner, that's they're problem.
Please stop the non-sense, Wynn, is in the wrong. Can you believe using a law, "you beat us," and we want our money back. Wynn, uses the gaming control and metro, to strong arm the winners.
What happen Wynn, were you not able to ask the players to stop, Wynn saw big money playing and hoped the players would lose their big money, when it didn't happen,..., it was time to call the big thugs, to go get the players,... and arrest them, if Wynn loses, lets arrest the players and freeze their money and assets, and charge them for lawyers, judges and court cost, they will go through, the frozen money. This is really bad, but the rich are protecting their assets, and never protecting the poor. That's why America, has lost its middle class, there are no American dreams, just "Controlled Dreams," controlled by law enforcement. America is in trouble if you continue to let these Rich, use law enforcement to bully people, the poor.