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PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE FLAP: Teachers taught standing required

District lawyer: It's wrong to make students stand for pledge

Though teachers can't legally force students to stand silently while others recite the Pledge of Allegiance, Clark County School District teachers are taught to do just that, according to the coordinator of new teacher induction.

Debbie Tomasetti, the coordinator, said Tuesday that her interpretation of school district regulations requires students to stand respectfully during the Pledge of Allegiance, even though they may have conscientious objections to the observance.


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New teachers are told, she said, that students, regardless of their beliefs, are supposed to "stand and show their respect" during the pledge.

Tomasetti's disclosure on teacher training in the school district came one day after Spring Valley High School sophomore Devon Smith said he was kicked out of class for refusing to stand during the pledge.

Smith, who doesn't believe in God, objects to that part of the pledge that refers to "one nation under God."

The training practice described by Tomasetti drew heavy criticism from American Civil Liberties Union of Nevada executive director Gary Peck.

"They are misinforming new teachers," said Peck. "It's no wonder we have so many complaints and have to intervene with so many students."

Bill Hoffman, the district's general counsel, said "there may be some confusion" in the district about a student's constitutional rights.

"There is no obligation to stand," he said. "We're going to have to improve and reinvigorate our training."

Tomasetti's reasoning stems from her interpretation of district regulation 6113.3. That regulation notes that students with conscientious objections "shall maintain a respectful attitude through the ceremony." Because the pledge, according to regulation, is to be carried out by students who "stand and face the flag," conscientious objectors must also stand, she said.

Peck said the ACLU of Nevada has never filed a lawsuit regarding the pledge in his 10 years with the group, but that the civil liberties organization has been able to persuade the school district to overturn discipline against students.

Both Peck and Hoffman said court decisions are clear on participation in the Pledge of Allegiance.

In 1943 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that public school students may not be compelled to recite the pledge, finding that the First Amendment of the Constitution protects a student's right not to engage in certain speech.

Appellate courts ruled in the 1970s that public school students could not be forced to stand silently while others recite the pledge. "It can no more be required than the pledge itself," the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled.

When Tomasetti was told that courts had ruled against forcing students to stand for the pledge, she replied: "I was unaware of that."

Mary Ella Holloway, president of the Clark County Education Association, said it would be wise for the district to send out a notice to teachers on the subject of the pledge about "what they can and can't do."

She said it would reduce unnecessary friction in the classroom.

Holloway said that when she teaches a class for union members who are working to meet licensing requirements, she always informs them about the rights of students. "A lot of things may irritate us," she said, "but we have to follow the law."

The 16-year-old Smith returned to school at Spring Valley High School on Tuesday and had "no problems," according to his mother, Donna Pearson. He did not recite the pledge nor did he stand silently as students recited it.

As Smith was booted from class Monday, his teacher told him to go to the dean's office. He did not. Instead he called his mother, who told him to come home.

Though Smith may not suffer any further consequences from his lack of participation in the Pledge of Allegiance, he could face disciplinary action for leaving the campus without permission.

"A student who leaves campus without permission can be considered truant," said Hoffman. "And he can be disciplined."

Smith was expelled from Durango High School in 2007 for writing on a bathroom wall. After successfully attending an alternative school, he recently entered Spring Valley High School.

Smith said he hasn't been participating in the pledge since eighth grade and that teachers never disciplined him for sitting out until teacher Susan Rheinwald kicked him out of class Monday. Rheinwald did not return phone calls Monday or Tuesday.

Smith's father, Sean Smith, a casino worker who does not have custody of his son, said that he understands his son's principled stand on the First Amendment, but he wants his son in school.

"He should have gone to the dean's office instead of going home," he said. "And this all could have been cleared up."

Sean Smith said he is a born again Christian who enjoys giving the pledge. "I'm very patriotic," he said. "I'm also proud of my son's convictions, but I'm afraid that if he gets in any more trouble he may end up dropping out of school."

Contact reporter Paul Harasim at pharasim@reviewjournal.com or (702) 387-2908.

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Caitlin wrote on May 21, 2009 05:32 AM: I recently was told that i needed to stand for the Pledge. I was sitting quietly not talking and actually thinking about how thankful i was for our troops, i was told by a new teacher that i had to stand up and recite the pledge. Its not that i dont support our troops, it was that i dont agree with the way our government is run. I didnt say anything back to my teacher, and i dont think that standing for the pledge should be this big of a deal, you do not have to recite it, but at least stand to support your freedom. I realized that i was wrong and i needed to at least stand, but it was also wrong of my teacher to tell me that i needed to recite it. All that kid had to do was calmly tell his teacher and the principal that he didnt have to and go online and find the dates that the court rulled in other cases that you dont have to stand. I also want to know what he was doing durring it? Was he talking? Or sitting there quietly?


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Shae wrote on May 07, 2009 06:38 AM: Shannon nd Just Curious u have serious issues


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Shannon wrote on February 12, 2008 08:01 PM: Just Curious,

Thank you.

So tell me, what was it that hinted at the undeniable hotness that is me - the part about the three kids or the fact that I'm not getting all 'sexy-time' with them (lol)?


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madmab wrote on February 12, 2008 03:19 AM: Patriot, I don't hate anyone or anything except child abusers, especially those who do so under the cover of authority of religion. The amount of child abuse (and killings in the name of their "one true god") under the cover of "christian" authority far outstrips abuse under any other authority.

Mormons believe in Christ, therefore they and Warren Jeffs are Christians. JWs, Catholics, Lutherans, etc., are Christians. Name *one* "christian" group that never abused or hurt anyone (and took pleasure in the infliction of that pain. If you want an example of "christian" abuse by those not thought to be nutjobs, look at the abuse of Native American children by "christian"-run residential schools in U.S. and Canada. In Canada, they're making reparations, but not in the U.S. Mom is getting an earful from a Navajo woman she knows. The woman was taken from her living parents, declared and "orphan", and put in a residential abuse mill by Christians.

Christians believe in biblegod, and in the bible, that god himself states that his name is "Jealous".

I don't hate imaginary friends because they are imaginary and not real - no point in hating the hallucination of another person. Your hate-filled blood-soaked sky daddy is the hallucination of a group of sun-braindamaged desert people that used force to get others to believe in their hallucination for several millenia, so I hate the hallucinators who damaged the world with their hate/war/evil/destruction not the hallucination.
Note the attack on me here - not against what I said but against what patriot *thinks* I said. Plenty of good folks in spite of christianity not because of it.

As long as there has been "one true god", there has been killing in his name (this applies to all Abramists, not just "christians"). Stop believing in violent hallucinations!


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Just Curious wrote on February 08, 2008 11:41 PM: Shannon,

Y O U...

sound so hot to me right now ;)


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patriot wrote on February 08, 2008 10:10 PM: Oh lets get this straight, Warren Jeffs was Mormon, not CHRISTIAN.And yes thers a diff, mormans believe God was once a man like we are, and that they will someday become a God like he is.The true and eternal God of scripture is eternel. HE is triune in nature, within the 1 eternal GOD are 3 co equal eternal and existant persons.FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT. Ano please don't tarnish the name of CHRIST by using a cultists as an example of CHRISTIANS.


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patriot wrote on February 08, 2008 10:03 PM: Madmab, isn't that alot of writing , just to say you hate CHRIST.


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Shannon wrote on February 08, 2008 07:10 PM: Just curious:

She may have been serious - there is so much misinformation blowing around I have no doubt that she probably believed it.

I have three children, and...eeeeeeew is right (lol). I'm not Wiccan any more, and when I was I never even thought about it. To be honest, that particular myth is new to me and I've been in the community for awhile.

I couldn't even imagine...
::shudders::. Gross.

At first I thought you were being facetious. It wasn't until you responded to my answer that I realized you were serious. I'm really sorry I snipped at you.


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patriot wrote on February 08, 2008 06:50 PM: And TLB, is common knoledge that the old testament was written before the new , thus the term old.Its quite obvious, you know nothing of textual critiscism. It is so easy to throw out blanket statements as you have done but never give any evidence to back it up. Really do some real bibly study before you show your lack of knoledge


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patriot wrote on February 08, 2008 06:43 PM: Well first off thats 1 of the things that makes the BIBLE, it doesnt cover peoples faults . As far as lot goes, he offered not wanting to but he so respected the men sent from GOD to him, not realizing they were angels,and the masses who were practicing homosexuality, all demon possesed wanted them for sex.


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tlb wrote on February 08, 2008 01:29 PM: Upon which translation? Do you know how much of the Bible is wrong due to faulty translation? I can recall at least 5 translations from todays version to the Old Herbrew that the Torah was written (pre-Christianity).

Besides, everone knows that the men blame the kids for their pedophiliac situations...


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Dr Frazier wrote on February 08, 2008 12:48 PM: "Just remember what Lot did to his daughters."

I'm no authority by any means tlb, but if I remember correctly, it was what the daughters did to Lot.


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tlb wrote on February 08, 2008 11:29 AM: To the classmate up at 1am in the morning...

H0ow do you know what weed smells like? Have you ever rolled your eyes and sighed when your parents were on your case about you not getting your homework done, not doing chores,and so forth?

I know I did roll my eyes when my parents were getting my 'goat', so to speak. Tis a part of growing up because as teenagers, 'we' thought we know everything, that all adults were dumb and nothing could stop or kill us. Heck, I am 40 and I still roll my eyes when my mom gets on my case about my choices in life (which BTW does include taking time to help raise my daughter instead of working).

For everyone else...

Just remember what Lot did to his daughters. Forced national service smacks of Communism, where there is one 'employer' and because..the Peacecorps want folks with college degrees...personal experience here.

Also from personal experience...if you force ANYONE to do something, there will be wars fought over it...i.e., American Revolution, Civil War, draft dogding during the Vietman War, the current situation with Iraq and Afghanastan...

And suddenly, I get images of the song "Signs" in my head...prefect song for this situation for it describes how too many rules does reduce individuality, which is what the basics of the formation of this country is based on.

Besides, hair color does not indicate what religion you are...what a stupid stereotype...


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Dr Frazier wrote on February 08, 2008 08:39 AM: Copy and paste this web address into your browse, turn your speakers on, and listen to Red Skelton's visionary, prophetic story from 1969 regarding the Pledge of Allegiance.


http://patriotfiles.org:80/Pledge.htm


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Just Curious wrote on February 08, 2008 07:18 AM: Thanks Shannon for clearing up the incest thing with Wiccans & Pagans.

I thought it sounded a little cockeyed, but the girl who was telling me about Wiccans and incest seemed so convinced of it and made such a convincing argument. I just figured she knew had some inside info.

I remember this divorced woman down the street from my house. She had 3 sons. Then two of them moved away with their dad. The 3rd son who stayed with his mom... well, the rumor was he and his mom were sleeping together. That was in high school. I don't remember anything about them being Wiccans/Pagans, but they both had black hair like this family.

It was pretty eeeuuwwyy.


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26 Year Military Vet wrote on February 08, 2008 07:05 AM: I think 18-24 months of national service should be required for all American high school graduates - no college deferments... everybody goes.

Go spend some time with the Peace Corps, in the military, assisting AmeriCorps, working at a state nursing home, picking trash up from sidewalks, whatever. And this should not be to indoctrinate or force patriotism, but to enlighten our citizens as to how much they have to be thankful for, and to let them all pay back just a little to this great nation that has given us the safety and incredible opportunities which are unknown and unimaginable in many countries throughout the world.

If every American were able to not only contribute back to the nation and society that raised them, but to also spend a few months breaking their back on goodwill missions in some of the $hithole countries I've experienced, I assure you they would all come back invigorated, proud, feeling good about their efforts, and most importantly, thankful for all we have in this great nation. Trust me on this one; unless you have been overseas (and I mean really overseas, not the Caribean) then you have no idea how remarkably well-off we are in this great nation. I think a little pay-back is in order, that's all.

And you'd be amazed too at how two months in Boot Camp can enlighten a wayward teen's mind! It can dramatically improve focus in life and give direction, while instilling some discipline and teaching participants that they are NOT the center of the universe but more aptly a part of the team.

I think after 18-24 service, young master Devon would spontaneously kiss the soil upon his arrival from overseas and proudly salute the flag that he'd come to miss and cherish.


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Shannon wrote on February 08, 2008 06:46 AM: I can't believe I'm dignifying the stupid question about Wiccans and incest, but here goes...

NO. Wiccans do not have sex with their children.

Should we assume that christians do that based upon how many people did it in the bible? Lots of copulating with brothers, sisters and children going on there.


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madmab wrote on February 08, 2008 03:25 AM: Just Curious: Your words are so untrue as to be potentially actionable as slanderous/libelous. Most Wiccans have *escaped* from child abuse/incest and aren't perpetrators. Now, if you want to look at institutionalized child abuse, look at the RCC and *many* other so-called "christian" organizations. Look at these "christian" nutjobs with family "compounds" who have children with their wives and daughters and granddaughters yet reject the rest of the world as "evil" and prohibit their extended inbred families from leaving to avoid said "evil". Look at Warren Jeffs and the inbreeding and incest (and rape and pedophilia) in his "christian" community. For every possible case of child abuse by a non-Christian, there are *hundreds* if not thousands of cases of "christian" child abuse that we never hear about because their religion doesn't become part of the news. Hint: every child abuse case where the religion of the perp isn't mentioned (in U.S. news) is some kind of "christian". For the *facts* about Wicca, to to www.religioustolerance.org.

BTW, I'm not a JW, but as a non-Christian, I do owe them a debt of gratitude for being so different that they shed their blood so that the rest of us could have Religious Freedom. And JW's (who are *Christian* and get that 90% of "Christmas" is Pagan) have Christmas day off because their employers are frequently *CLOSED* that day, so where are they gonna work? Think, Bigots!!! There is an overabundance of not thinking, irrationality, and good old-fashioned "christian love" (i.e., hatred for anyone different) in the posts here. I'm glad I live in a cosmopolitan urban area where rights and freedoms of all people are recognized. Your bull-crap is not welcome here, thank all the Gods!

"God" is the *job description* of the Abramic hate-filled punitive sky daddy, not his name (which is JEALOUS).


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Elvis wrote on February 08, 2008 01:14 AM: He'll be one of NAMBLA toys soon - just watch.


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Classmate wrote on February 08, 2008 01:09 AM: If you'd all care to know the rest of the story, here's why he actually got kicked outta class...

The dumb@zz was asked to leave because he kept sighing and rolling his eyes. He was being disruptive to the rest of us. Also, he reeked of weed. That explains why his mom told him to go home.

The teacher made the right decision. He disobeyed by not going to the office and should be disciplined for it!


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Just Curious wrote on February 08, 2008 01:05 AM: Someone told me Wiccans and Pagans practice incest! Is that right? Do Wiccan boys do it with their moms?

Wow! I don't think I'd be bragging on here about being a Wiccan.


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TaithBedwenWyn wrote on February 07, 2008 12:12 PM: Being raised by a Wiccan does not mean the boy will drop out of school.

Wiccans make choices and take responsibility for those choices.

I'm Wiccan, who is gainfully employed, completed high school, college (on an academic scholarship), spent a summer at Oxford University (on an academic scholarship).

I would not say the pledge because of the way it was edited in the 50's to add the under God line.


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MadMab wrote on February 07, 2008 07:32 AM: The pledge was devised by a socialist Baptist minister for the children of "swarthy" immigrants because those immigrants were deemed to never be capable of becoming "true Americans" (i.e., white anglo-saxon protestants), so the pledge was to be used to make their "swarthy" children into "true Americans" (a "bleaching" process) through indoctrination. For "swarthy", read Mediterranean, Eastern European, Catholic, and/or Jewish. As a patriotic American who was born here and can claim three of the four definitions of "swarthiness" (possibly four), I no longer stand or recite the pledge since I learned of this part of the history. It is a racist slam on my ancestors and on me. All those "patriotic" so-called "christians" who are slamming Devon are cogs in a racist and bigoted system of repression of anyone who is "other" - other than white, anglo-saxon, and "christian". If you're Italian, Polish (Greek, etc. - check a map), Catholic, Jewish, and even Irish, do rethink your support of the pledge - it was aimed at *you* and your chronic "not American enough" status defined by racists of this country. (reference To the Flag: The Unlikely History of the Pledge of Allegiance by Richard J. Ellis if you don't believe me).

Devon, good on ya! You have the right to do what you're doing per W.Va. v. Barnett and Dettmer v. Landon. Cite these cases in your defense.

I find it ironic that the facists condemning Devon the most are those who grew their hair long, smoked pot, and marched to demand their right to wear bluejeans and have free speech in the 60s-70s, hypocritical Baby Boomer Fascists!

Patriotic (late baby boomer) Sister of a career Navy officer, daughter and niece of many veterans who fought to *uphold* the **Constitution**, not flags, Christians, racists, idiotic presidents, or flag-draped, cross-carrying fascism.


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GOD wrote on February 06, 2008 10:19 PM: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.", should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.

THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE IS A PROMISE OR OATH OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE UNITED STATES AND TO ITS NATIONAL FLAG, NOT ABOUT GOD.


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lib wrote on February 06, 2008 08:16 PM: WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWah!!1


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TM wrote on February 06, 2008 06:58 PM: there's another tm out here that's obviously not this tm.stand up for what you believe in.in this case,don't stand up.


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60's Girl wrote on February 06, 2008 06:44 PM: I suggest the student do what we did in the 1960's. Quietly stand during the pledge, and raise his left arm and fist, in a black power salute. That used to get the establishment types is a real tizzy.


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tlb wrote on February 06, 2008 06:41 PM: It is the corrdinatoor's fault for not pursuing a school lawyer's advice about the ordinance. She does not have the legal training to interpret such documentation.

Ms. (or Mrs. or Miss) Hollaway's suggestion about sending out a notice is on the spot. It can be intregrated into a staff development day and done so each year prior to the beginning of the school year.

Also seems like over 40 years ago, the 'punks' were the ones who were advocating for the civil rights of the Negro and other minorities. Give me a punk because at least...they have the guts to stand up for what is right and true.

Besides, he is still a kid and kids made mistakes. Didn't you when you were his age (underage drinking, necking, taking the car without permission, experimental drug use)?

My brother went to alternative(?) school by his choice over 10 years ago. He graduated earlier, served his country for over 10 years and is now a USPS employee...and he used to be a 'long hair kid' who appeared to have no sense of direction (just like my other brother, but he is in Iraq with the NSA).

That goodness for the First Amendment...tis allowed me and my family to serve our country to the best of our abilities and I did not stand up for the Pledge either, but sat quietly for a moment of silence.

Walk in Beauty


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j wrote on February 06, 2008 05:43 PM: School teaches children how to be successful in an industrial society, ie..how to be a "good" worker. Unfortunately, this kid is not learning, or being taught by his parents how to be successful in society. How many people would be employed if they decided to take a stand every time their employer told them to do something they did not want to do? Teach this kid the way it works, or you will be supporting him for the rest of your life.


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oldlawdawg wrote on February 06, 2008 05:19 PM: Sorry. Sheila R., but removing children from the classroom i sthe LAST thing the teacher should do as it singles out those children for exclusion from the group because of their beliefs when all they seek is exclusion form the pledge. Removing the children will almost certaionly result in a lawsuit and immediate injunction as the courts ruled out exclusin decades ago when they ruled that a child does not have to stand. Freankly, it is a terrible idea on its face as we should not encourage our children to exclude one another for their religious or political beliefs. I am not sure what "confusion" you are talking about, but your description of what happens to your concentration when one little thing is out of place suggests your "confusion" may be unique to you, and others should not be singled out because somebody in the room may have ADD....


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zoey wrote on February 06, 2008 05:08 PM: ok you guys posting these insulting comments about someone half your age are idiots. he didnt do anything wrong. check the first amendment. FREEDOM OF SPEECH. refusing to say the pledge doesnt have anything to do with disrespecting america. some people choose not to say it because not everyone has the same beliefs. everyone has differences and not everyone believes in the same god. if you feel uncomfortable being forced to say something you dont believe in, you have every right to fight against the situation. plus he didnt even know all his newspaper bullshit was gonna happen. so before you talk shit, get your facts straight.


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tm wrote on February 06, 2008 04:39 PM: fyi,there's more than one tm out here.I'm the tm who stands up for our rights and I believe we should be paying much more attention to the one who is really abusing our rights.You know,the one who calls the constitution"just a god-damn piece of paper".The one who lied us into war.


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Sheila R. wrote on February 06, 2008 04:17 PM: The way I see it, it's simple, whether you have a student that doesn't believe in or respect the Pledge, just have that student, or those students to respectfully leave the class room until the pledge is done, I see it as if you are going to sit in the class and not stand, you still hear the reciting of the pledge, so to keep down confusion, and to have respect for one another let's help each other out, and ask those students that wish not to recite the pledge to move out into the Hall of his/her classroom until the Pledge has been completed by those who wish to recite the pledge, I can understand the Teacher's position, if i'm in concentration of doing something, and if there is just one thing out of place that would disrupt the whole situation it put everthing off course, so again to keep down confusuion, excuse those students into the hall of their class, once its over have them come back into the classroom, and reconvine with class work. Thank you.


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Huckster wrote on February 06, 2008 02:53 PM: People complaining about this, STFU!!!! I don’t care who you are, what you have done, he has that right, hell the school’s own attorney says it wrong to make students stand. There’s lots of things that happen every day we all don’t agree with but we just suck it up and move on. All your belly-aching isn’t going to do a darned thing, except maybe make you feel better, or a little bit more patriotic, yeah yeah, wave the flag, ra ra and all that good crap. You really want to show your patriotism, then volunteer at the local VA clinic, help to take care of our vets, or help to clean the facilities they use. Why don’t you volunteer at the local homeless shelter as a majority of homeless are veterans. Better yet, sign your asses up and pack a rucksack, carry a weapon and man a post. No, that would be too hard and actually require more than lip service, which so many ‘patriots’ here seem all to willing to give.

Main number to VA 636-3000, ask for volunteer department
Main Number to Las Vegas Rescue Mission, For christ’s sake, get off your flabby fat SUV driving asses and look it up, I already gave you one number, geez, does everything have to be done for you?! Move! Move! Move!


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patriot wrote on February 06, 2008 02:50 PM: Lets be real here,the ones truly at fault here is the good ole RJ. sure this mislead kid has some maturing to do, but this surely isn't worth 2 days of front page news.Nothing more then a propoganda settup, so tomm they can run a story. About a sweet illegal family that loves America and salutes the flag. Till there in numbers then its grab the crotch time, and burn the flag, sying f--k you Americans


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vegasgirl wrote on February 06, 2008 02:40 PM: You people posting here are ridiculous. He's a teenager! Lay off him! And BTW: Re-read the Constitution!


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P wrote on February 06, 2008 02:22 PM: I blame the standards in USA! We are always dropping them for people! Like how we have to learn Spanish...If you go to Mexico you have to learn Spanish, if you go to France you have to learn French...and so on! Saying the pledge is one thing but not standing! thats just rude!!! People are dying everyday and for what?!? little brats like him who thinks he's trying to be cool or something? They should have to at least stand...if he was anywhere else he would of been killed already. If you think you are cool sweety then get a life because you are just acting like a little boy that will not make it in life! Blame the mother becuse that is were he got it from!


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joe wrote on February 06, 2008 02:22 PM: CCSD violates the rights of teachers and students daily.
Is it any surprise that Tomassetti knew nothing of long-standing legal precedent? And to think she was promoted for it to new teacher coordinator.
Make no mistake, citizens, CCSD could not care less about the moron, low moron, and idiot-like nature of their administrators.


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tm wrote on February 06, 2008 01:57 PM: what the hells wrong with these young punks.this punk will never finish school will be in prison . tm


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Chris wrote on February 06, 2008 01:49 PM: This white-trash garbage of a family unit is not worth this much press. Whether or not he HAS to stand, it is a sign of respect. I travel to different countries a lot and whether or not I AGREE with certain things, I do RESPECT different ideas and cultures.

This garbage needs to be thrown out.


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Jeez! wrote on February 06, 2008 01:32 PM: Jeez! Let's not forget some of the "troubled" or "underachieving" students throughout history that have marched to their own drummer's beat right into greatness! I guess if you want to stamp or die-cut nice little worker-bees that aren't going to question anything, let alone aspire to anything, then keep whining about this kid. Keep whining right back into your cookie-cutter tract house suburbs, go to sleep (with the aid of whatever medication it takes) and get back up to perform your tricks for the man tomorrow.


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. wrote on February 06, 2008 01:30 PM: .


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justhinkin wrote on February 06, 2008 01:26 PM: SierraVista Dad if the educators are as awful and uneducated, or "dim" as you claim what does it say about your willingness to send your child to school everyday? If you think you can do better for your child I suggest you homeschool him or her. I am sure with your intelligence they will be entering an ivy league school soon enough.... ohh wait a minute... it's people who have chosen to become teachers that are teaching there too... and teaching the doctors, MBA's and accountants also... drats... how did all these people get so educated with such dim bulbs as teachers?


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justhinkin wrote on February 06, 2008 01:10 PM: It is sad to say, but maybe a free education is not where it is at anymore. Perhaps if parents and students alike were more respectful of the educators today we would not have a teacher shortage. With this young man's high knowledge of the Constitution maybe he could start is own charter school where all the disgruntled students would have the chance to learn and exercise their rights to do what ever suits them. Since his mother supports his choice to not be in that nasty, mean school, maybe she could be the princiPAL of his new charter and take on the responsibility of educating a generation of children who are not being parented.... perhaps they could do their grammar lessons on her bathroom wall... or where ever else they chose to exercise their freedom of speech.


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SierraVistaDad wrote on February 06, 2008 01:03 PM: The problem of constitutionally illiterate "educators" is not just limited to Spring Valley High or even to the Clark County School District.

It is a national problem.

The problem stems from the fact that college students with the highest intelligence generally become doctors, scientists, lawyers, MBA's, accountants, etc. leaving the "education profession" for the dimmer bulbs, who are often the B- students from high school through college.

These less than brilliant "educators" then enter a culture set by egomaniacal control freaks, e.g. school administrators who have worked their way up from classroom teacher status. The "I am in authority and I don't care what the courts have said" attitude is endemic among teachers and administrators throughout the country let alone CCSD.

Often, in an entire school system, the only person in a senior position who understands the force of law is the school district's "General Counsel". But alas, he is classified as an advisor, not as a person with decision making authority. As a result, the egomaniac educators "in control" continue their unlawful conduct, and public funds are continually spent defending that conduct, rather than teaching students.

I have been banging my head against the wall, for the past 6 years, trying to get CCSD teachers to comply with Federal legislation giving special education students specific rights. That law requires that teachers comply with the text of special ed students' "Individual Education Program". Alas, the teachers won't even take the time to read the IEP, let alone comply with it, even though Federal law requires that they do so.

I have found it pointless to try to make teachers and administrators comply with Federal law concerning my child's rights. If challenged, they respond by being petty and vicious towards by child, conduct which is, unfortunately, not illegal.


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Fausto wrote on February 06, 2008 12:54 PM: "he will drop out of school in less than 18 months"

Something tells me that won't make as much news when it does happen, but will have a much greater impact on society. Instead of graffiti tagging at the school he'll actually be tagging in a place I can (unfortuantely) view it everyday.

The taggers take over this town and Deputy Doug (Gillespie) does little. It's a crass community when this little tagger becomes a newspaper star. Just a few more articles from the R-J which he stars in and perhaps he'll be hanging out with Brittney & Lindsay!


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master bates wrote on February 06, 2008 12:49 PM: WHAT are you thinking for this kid!!!!he should stand. He looks like a little punk send him to a country that has no rights and let him stay there!!!


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Buzz Daly wrote on February 06, 2008 12:48 PM: Just a reminder. I'm still waiting for any evidence whatsoever that "godfigures" exist anywhere but in the minds of those who choose to believe in them. Take your time. Therefore, may I suggest that we have no more business putting "god" on our money as we do "santa". Hard to swallow for sure, but, fully supported by any evidence I've seen.


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Ernest Worrell wrote on February 06, 2008 12:46 PM: Just another story about stupid kids, that show that having a dog is much better.


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GET A HAIRCUT KID wrote on February 06, 2008 12:39 PM: Hangings too good for him... so, let's let him live with the bad witch of the west until he's arrested. He's certainly been black-balled at any jobs on the strip from now on.

I hear there is a janitorial position in Pahrump.


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Becky Trimble wrote on February 06, 2008 12:25 PM: We live in America. I don't mind the students not saying the pledge if they object but they should stand and show respect to this great country in which they have the privilege to live.


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Stan.Theman wrote on February 06, 2008 12:22 PM: Dad should have custody. I predict, that if this kid continues to live with Mom, he will drop out of school in less than 18 months.


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dwc wrote on February 06, 2008 11:59 AM: Yeah, tm gets it! A few others, too, but too few, sadly. Many presumptuous bastids in the room today!

And Dennis, I hope your nuerons are able to fire in a way consistent with those that are able to appreciate sarcasm. Mebbe you spent too much time in a classroom, though, but I won't hold it against you. Here's a little hint, though: your post only served to further illuminate my point. :)


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Bob Jones wrote on February 06, 2008 11:50 AM: This kid is like a Dylan Kebold in the making. What an ass. It's about respecting the country we live in. Nothing more, nothing less.


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Sandie wrote on February 06, 2008 11:21 AM: Yes!!! Please listen Mr. or Mrs. Smith!!! What do you have in the making??????
I have battled much with my teenager, but she is graduating high school this year!!
Parents need to PARENT!!! Kids don't need rights??? Especially little punks that have no boundaries!!! THEY NEED PARENTS THAT TEACH THEM RIGHT AND WRONG!!


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miguel raiz wrote on February 06, 2008 11:15 AM: Good for the teacher, but I am sure the socialist and perverted National Education Association Union disagrees. Lets see boys and girls, what is the result of the NEA's general policy of teaching children to disrespect/hate the US? Disloyalty, disunity, conflict, and the balkanization of the U.S., and national suicide, if given enough time.


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zena wrote on February 06, 2008 11:03 AM: Sean Smith said he is a born again Christian who enjoys giving the pledge. "I'm very patriotic," he said. "I'm also proud of my son's convictions, but I'm afraid that if he gets in any more trouble he may end up dropping out of school."

Sean says he's 'afraid'. If his own dad is afraid, why do we put this kid in our public school system with our children? He doesn't want to be there, he wants to drop out.......let him. Go now, bye bye. Drop drop. You are proud of him, you are afraid. Which is it? You're confusing me think how the kid must feel. Now let's hear something about a kid who does good in our community. Forget this crap about some delinquent who does nothing for society but infect our schools. Drop drop.


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zena wrote on February 06, 2008 10:59 AM: Sean Smith said he is a born again Christian who enjoys giving the pledge. "I'm very patriotic," he said. "I'm also proud of my son's convictions, but I'm afraid that if he gets in any more trouble he may end up dropping out of school."

Sean.......dropping out of school is his choice too? How old is your son? 15? And he gets to chose wether to go to school or not? Wow, you really believe in your child's civil rights. You are not doing this kid any justice. Think about it. No respect for property, humans, education, parents......what do you have in the making there? God Bless you.


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zena wrote on February 06, 2008 10:56 AM: nothing to do with God. He was defying authority which is his character. This kid is in for trouble later down the road. NO RESPECT FOR ANYTHING. Discipline the teacher? No. Make his parents educate him at THEIR house. Let him express himself by writing on THEIR bathroom walls. What will his mother do when he disrespects her? Send him to Dad's?


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zena wrote on February 06, 2008 10:43 AM: and you write about this why? what about the kids who are doing something good for the community? This kid needs a lesson in respect. Obviously it's not his first encounter with being jousted from a school. Now he's in the paper. Get him out of the schools. This type of person is infecting those who have respect for education. Cut out the infection. Even his own father said he has no interest in being in school. Let his 'born again' mother educate him in HER house. And shame on the reporter who put this article in the paper, shame on the RJ for allowing it. Now let's see what he does NEXT for some more of this attention you gave him. Do you have any idea how many KIDS volunteer their time to this community and you write NOTHING about that. NOTHING. You show kids that their efforts go unnoticed. Shame on the media for stirring up more crap that we don't need. Sleep well at night Paul and God Bless you.


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dlw wrote on February 06, 2008 10:29 AM: Thank goodness we live in a country that allows not standing, Wiccans, illegals, druggies, terrorist cells and general purpose criminals out free. Where does this stop?


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margaret cimini wrote on February 06, 2008 10:27 AM: lets see the mother tell him to leave when he is in jail and doesn't like the food


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margaret cimini wrote on February 06, 2008 10:25 AM: what is this kid taking up in school?
space...... lol


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tm wrote on February 06, 2008 10:22 AM: HANG HIM,STONE HIM,CRUCIFY HIM,OR EVEN WORSE,SEND HIM TO IRAQ FOR 2 YRS.Teach him to kill and rape for our portfolios sake.Make a real man out of him as we cruise along in our hummers and beamers forgetting all about that time 40 some yrs. ago when we burned the flag,draft cards,bras,joints all because of an unjust war as our parents sat back in shame saying how disrespectful of the ignorant little jerks.They should round them all up and send them off to Viet Nam.


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Sandie wrote on February 06, 2008 10:21 AM: What a joke. And to Mr. and Mrs. Smith,
THANKS ALOT FOR RAISING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING THAT WILL LITTER THE EARTH BECAUSE OF THE DISRESPECT YOU HAVE TAUGHT THEM.
People need to wake the feck up! This kid is a criminal in the making.


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Francis Bellamy wrote on February 06, 2008 10:15 AM: WHO CARES...the flag doesn't mean anything nowadays. You can't burn it, let it touch the ground, requires certain lighting to display it etc. It has more rules and regulations regarding its display than an average HUMAN being. There was the uproar about removing the 'under god' from the pledge but GOD is still referenced on our weak ass dollar. If people want to pledge allegiance to a piece of fabric, then let them do so, if they don't let them do so. And besides, since when was the pledge said in high school anyways? I only recall having a morning pledge in elementary school and at some assemblies in middle school. If he doesn't stand and recite the pledge, who is he hurting? One of the richest countries in the world that has millions of people living out in the streets...a country that doesn't enforce it laws equally across the board when applied to people of color...a country that tries to be the WORLD'S enforcer? I would choose not to recite the meaningless pledge also. 'Liberty and justice for all' my ASS. Deuce


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margaret cimini wrote on February 06, 2008 10:09 AM: bet if the little brat was lying in bed dying he would be praying to god.


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seeds wrote on February 06, 2008 10:09 AM: Though Smith may not suffer any further consequences from his lack of participation in the Pledge of Allegiance, he could face disciplinary action for leaving the campus without permission.

"A student who leaves campus without permission can be considered truant," said Hoffman. "And he can be disciplined."

Smith was expelled from Durango High School in 2007 for writing on a bathroom wall. After successfully attending an alternative school, he recently entered Spring Valley High School.
Gee like we couldn't see definance in his picture. Mom needs to teach her child to respect others before he's out stealing cars. I bet he inspires to be our next police cheif when he grows up.


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SGT. R. Horne USMC wrote on February 06, 2008 10:07 AM: I am always a few days behind on the paper. Students stand: not to stand. I am a JARHEAD (USMC) my family has been in the Marines since it's inception in 1775. My family has suffered loses in many wars and so has countless other family's to keep this great nation free. This young man who does not wish to pledge allegiance to this nation needs a hair cut and 13 weeks at Parris Island South Carolina United States Marine Corps Recruit Training Depot. Every young man in this country should be made to spend 2 years in the military. Which branch his choice. This I don't care attitude is not how our parents raised us. I am talking about all of us from the old school. With the direction we are headed where will be be as a nation in 25 years? Thank You


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RandolphRed wrote on February 06, 2008 10:06 AM: The Bill of Rights allows us to sit or stand, to take off our hat or leave our hat on, to agree or dissagree. It even allows us to butcher the Star Spangled Banner. It also allows THIS discussion!!! I don't see a problem.. I had long curley locks in '69... Too much trouble to tend to!!! I understand why women's hair is shorter that it used to be... At this point I only wish that I still had any hair.


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S.Lane wrote on February 06, 2008 09:53 AM: If the Devon can't respect the School regs or his fellow students pledge, what can he respect?


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Judy wrote on February 06, 2008 09:48 AM: this is what is wrong with our country.
we are so worried about people's feelings that we forget to show respect for the flag and what it stands for. its because of that flag and the men and women who died for those freedoms that this young man has the right to state his opinion, but just out of respect, why can't he simply stand and show respect for the flag, even if he doesn't like the words. believe me there are a lot of words out there that we don't like, but its all about respect and thinking about the sacrifices that went along with that Flag. God Bless America!


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Fafner wrote on February 06, 2008 09:48 AM: It's interesting how many people here talk out one side of their mouths about the freedoms we enjoy in America and then, out of the other side, demand *compulsory* observance of a pledge to a flag -- or else.


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dave l wrote on February 06, 2008 09:41 AM: 1. reference to god in pledge is not 'hundreds of years old'; it started in 1953.

2. seems several people in the CCSD put our taxpayer money at risk (they are, after all highly paid risk-managers), in any lawsuit, both for damages and defense, because they failed miserably in the job. As the court decision is well known and has been in existence for over 60 years, these administrators "knew or should have known" that their actions violated the constitution. The guidelines should have been veted by legal counsel.

3. I believe that accountability should occur in the administrative staff. A week without pay seems appropriate.


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Dennis wrote on February 06, 2008 09:36 AM: dwc if you want to discuss the problem then do so, to use the word trollop in your arguement only shows your ignorance and inability for sane thought. Respect goes both ways - you have not shown any to Kelly, why would you expect any?


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fed up wrote on February 06, 2008 09:33 AM: Mr.Mike - there is no gate either.


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Lou wrote on February 06, 2008 09:31 AM: Brian, why are you attacking Betty. She is right. You choose to ignor the issue and attack her spelling?? What a baby you are.

This is, in fact the way Clark County Schools confusion, miss inform the students and parents who pay their wages.

The question is, why now? What's different from other day in the classroom? What triggered the teacher to act.

It's not about the kid or how he looks.
Its not about that he went home.
If the school's standards or instructions failed, then that the schools issue. The First Amendments Rights must be upheld in all cases.

School is not a jail or a prison, although many in Clark County schools are run like it, students should not be treated as such. They are the future leaders of this country and if they feel threatened, they should seek the safety of their parents.


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school mate of smith wrote on February 06, 2008 09:29 AM: SEND HIM BACK TO THE ALTERNATIVE SCHOOL.
THE KID IS BAD NEWS. WE ALL KNOW HIS ACTIONS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PLEDGE. THAT IS HIS EXCUSE FOR NOT OBEYING AUTHORITY. WHAT WAS HIS EXCUSE WRITING ON THE BATHROOM WALL? FREE SPEECH? I BET HIS BATHROOM AT HIS HOUSE ISN'T FULL OF GRAFFITI. STOP WRITING ABOUT THIS KID. YOU ARE JUST OPENING A PANDORA'S BOX TO LET EVERY PARENT OR STUDENT CALL THE RJ AND COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW SCHOOL IS RUN, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY DON'T WANT TO BE THERE.


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JMac wrote on February 06, 2008 09:20 AM: 2 Peter 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."


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