NORTHWEST VALLEY: Concerns grow about gun park - News

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May. 10, 2008
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

NORTHWEST VALLEY: Concerns grow about gun park

Nellis officials question possible use of .50-caliber rifles at range

By SCOTT WYLAND
REVIEW-JOURNAL

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A shooting range where hobbyists could fire .50-caliber rifles might become part of the planned 2,900-acre gun park in five to 10 years.

That possibility has stirred loud cries from many neighbors in this northernmost tip of Las Vegas urging Clark County officials to do a noise study at the park site.

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Nellis Air Force Base officials also have expressed concerns about aircraft flying over an area where such powerful rifles would be discharged.

Gun advocates, meanwhile, insist that .50-caliber rifles are safer than smaller firearms because they make up a pricey pastime for well-to-do sports shooters who want to compete at high-end gun ranges.

The latest skirmish is another sign that the park, which will cost $64 million in the first phase alone, will be a divisive project well into the future.

A neighborhood activist argues that the original plan was probably OK when the stretch of land at the north end of Jones and Decatur boulevards was empty.

"We need to step back and re-evaluate the area that now has houses, versus 15 years ago when there was nothing," said Lisa Mayo-De Riso, a business consultant and local activist.

Mayo-De Riso said Nellis Air Force Base leaders expressed concerns to the county about how a .50-caliber range might be hazardous to aircraft because the rifles can shoot down a plane.

Nellis officials issued written statements this week touching on safety concerns about the range. Growth in the valley has limited flight paths to the Nevada Test Site, making it necessary at times for planes to fly over the park site, officials said.

"Nellis remains committed to working with the county to adopt the necessary safety modifications to develop the park compatibly with our mission," the statement read.

The .50-caliber range wouldn't be developed for at least five years, said Don Turner, the county shooting park manager.

Barriers, known as baffling, can be installed to catch stray rounds, Turner said, noting that they would stand about 30 feet tall.

Nellis is studying how extensive the baffling must be to safeguard planes, or whether such shields will be needed at all, Turner said.

He argued that errant bullets can shoot skyward from anywhere in the valley, given that 45 percent of the county's residents own guns.

Two gun ranges in the county already accommodate .50-caliber gunfire, Turner said. The shooting park's range would be considerably larger than either.

Shooting .50-caliber firearms is an expensive sport, he said. The rifles run from $3,000 to $8,000, and each round costs $5. Roughly 40,000 people own .50-caliber rifles in the country, and most of the owners are serious hobbyists who travel to competitions, said John Burtt, chairman of the Fifty Caliber Institute, based in Oklahoma.

Shooting these rifles became an organized sport in the mid-1980s, he said. As many as 60 people will participate at the more popular venues, each firing off hundreds of rounds at paper targets during the contests.

Plans for the .50-caliber range make a sound test at the site imperative, Mayo-De Riso said, adding that the study would cost about $35,000.

The county is basing its decibel estimates on research done in Arizona, she said.

Meters could be set up near the high school and the homes near the site to get a clear idea of the repetitive noise that students and residents would have to endure, she said.

If the sound falls within the county's 56-decibel threshold, the residents would have nothing more to say, she said.

But county spokeswoman Jennifer Knight said it would make no sense to measure noise at the site now on terrain that will change after the gun range is finished.

Berms will be added and backstops will be built, all of which will diminish the noise, she said.

If the gunfire exceeds the 56-decibel limit after the park's first phase is built, the county can take steps to muffle the noise then, she said.

"It's really very premature to do a sound study because it would be a waste of the taxpayers' money," Knight said.

However, one resident argued that a more exorbitant waste of tax dollars would be to overhaul the shooting range after the fact or shut it down.

"We think $35,000 to spend on a proper sound study to prevent the waste of $64 million is not a bad idea," said Tyson Wrensch, who since October 2004 has lived in Carmel Canyon, a subdivision that will be a mile from the range.

Knight said the Arizona study was done in conditions similar to those at the Las Vegas site -- open desert terrain and arid heat -- and the shots were measured at 40 decibels.

"So it's a fair comparison," she said.

One area gun-range operator said the county made a reasonable effort to publicize the park but should have gone further to dispense information to avoid a feud.

Although the park has been discussed among sports shooters for two decades, residents who moved in after the public forums began seven years ago could have missed all the scuttlebutt, especially if they're not shooters, said Steve Carmichael, who runs the Las Vegas Gun Club's center.

"If you're not into shooting, I don't know how you'd know anything at all," he said.

Contact reporter Scott Wyland at swyland@reviewjournal.com or 702-455-4519.

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Please enter your name Name: Please enter your email Email: Please enter a comment COMMENTS : (word count limit is 300) You have reached the maximum number of words allowed Current Word Count: Note: Comments made by reporters and editors of the Las Vegas Review-Journal are presented with a yellow background. Bill Wood wrote on August 03, 2008 09:04 AM: I think the shooting park will be a great addittion to the community. I am personally excited about the possibilities of being able to attend .50 caliber shooting contests right here in the Las Vegas Valley, and also to be able to practice honing my skills at the proposed 1200 yard range. I can't wait to take advantage of the new facilities and I hope that they are allowed to continue on with their plans. Its not over wrote on June 03, 2008 11:15 AM: Mr Hall (and anyone else who needs help) You are not alone... we have uncovered even more evidence in the concealment to the public detriment that the County has committed. The fight is not over and the park can and will be stopped. Head north one block to Carmel Canyon or La Ventina and residents there can point you to the committee members. We have tried to contact your HOA but they are not returning calls. Also Paypal donations for our legal fund for the Residents Against the Shooting Park (RASP) can be made to RASPfund "at" gmail "dot" com Bill Hall wrote on June 01, 2008 01:31 PM: To hell with the gun club. What is wrong with the one they have now. I can not believe that the interests of a few are going to out way the interests of many many more people. I'm angry on several levels. First spending $65 million on "Phase One" is a huge amount of money that Nevada does not have to spend at the moment.(How much are the other phases going to cost and what impact are they going to have on the home owners in that area) Secondly my home in Iron mountain ranch has already depreciated $90,000 over the last 3 years because the powers that be did not control the bad loans that where being handed out left right and center. With ths proposed gun club about to be built in my back yard I can not kiss good bye to at least another $60,000 IF I can sell it at all....And NO I did not know or have any idea that this was going to happen in my area. I'm only one person and I feel I have no say and no control over what will happen over this gun club. Me like many others are powerless to do anything to stop this thing going in, which is why we rely on a just government to look out for our rights and well being.... It must be nice to have lobbyist in high places. Happy shooting to the few and good luck selling your homes to the many. Bill John M. wrote on May 14, 2008 12:40 AM: Michael Lussem, We Support our troops on this issue! Major wrote on May 14, 2008 12:36 AM: Mr. Lussem, The only representative from Nellis that was involved with the shooting park planning was a civilian that in charge of public relations for the Nellis Trap and Skeet range. You might as well had a Nellis mess hall worker. I t would have had the same impact. You needed to communicate with Nellis flight operations during planning. If you did you would not be in the trouble you are in over this issue. Michael S. Lussem wrote on May 12, 2008 06:48 AM: I am very upset by this article! "Nellis officials"? Who were they? Nellis has known about the shooting park for years! The shooting park has had bi-partisan support from the federal government. County and city officials have signed off on the park's compliance with virtually every requirement placed before it with the EPA, BLM, and a half dozen other entities. I am so disappointed that you have become a part of the "drive by media". You just hit and ran. Where is your research? Where are the comments from those that have been involved in the park? Senator Harry Reid, Senator John Ensign, Congresswoman Shelley Berkely all have voiced support of our range and were present for the groundbreaking last year. I hope that you will revisit this topic with a true in-depth analysis of what the park is really all about. Lorraine wrote on May 11, 2008 12:51 AM: Although there was a 30 member Shooting Park Advisory Committee, none of them gave any thought to disclosure or the community that the range will affect. Those are the people the shooters should be angry with. They let all of us down. There was supposed to be an interlocal agreement between Clark County and Las Vegas. However in 2004 and 2005, when homebuyers, prior to purchasing, (including myself) called the Las Vegas Planning Department to inquire about the future plans for the land behind our community, we were told that nothing was planned, perhaps it would be a water treatment facility, or library or school; some of us were told it was protected lands. Up until approximately six weeks ago, the Centennial Hills Master Plan showed the area that will be the shooting park as "Open Space." Again, no mention was made of a shooting park. Although this range was in the planning for many years, there were five other sites that were considered. BLM did not give the county this land until 2002. It appears that there was a "Concealment to the public detriment" here. Unless you were a gun enthusiast or had a relationship with a member of the Shooting Park Advisory Comm or politician, you would have had to be psychic to know that a shooting park was going to be built in this location. Several employees and a Vice President for Lennar purchased in Carmel Canyon; they had no notice either. Approximately 400 familes purchased in this area. 99% of them did not know about the shooting park. The other 1 percent are gun enthusiasts. There needs to be a federal invigation to uncover the lies. Chuck wrote on May 10, 2008 11:58 PM: We contacted the NRA for a second opinion, and the NRA delivered bad news. Our ranges was not unique. Controlling sounds coming from shotgun facilities is almost impossible. NRA's only tongue-in-cheek remedy to protect the neighbor was to build a dome over our shotgun facilities. Tom C. wrote on May 10, 2008 11:52 PM: Timeranger, Excerpt from the article: One area gun-range operator said the county made a reasonable effort to publicize the park but should have gone further to dispense information to avoid a feud. Although the park has been discussed among sports shooters for two decades, residents who moved in after the public forums began seven years ago could have missed all the scuttlebutt, especially if they're not shooters, said Steve Carmichael, who runs the Las Vegas Gun Club's center. I rest my case! "If you're not into shooting, I don't know how you'd know anything at all," he said. Don wrote on May 10, 2008 11:16 PM: Cal, The sound study was not done on a similar sized venue. It was done on a Tucson facility (80 acres) just 10% of the size of the Clark County Shooting Park. On that borrowed study it even says if the Tuscon shooting facility were to get larger that study is invalid and a new study would be needed. Therefore, the County is using an invalid study for a park this size. Yes, you can do a study before building the park. Acoustics experts do that all of the time to determine the acoustics impact on surrounding communities. Read All Comments