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RIES ELEMENTARY: 7-year-olds get past shooting

Pair transferred to new schools but face no charges

Two weeks ago, a 7-year-old Ries Elementary School student took a 9 mm handgun to a southwest valley school bus stop crowded with children.

He showed the weapon to another 7-year-old boy, who took it and fired at an unoccupied vehicle near Misty Haze Street and Wigwam Avenue, west of Decatur Boulevard.


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  • No one was hurt, but the near miss with tragedy wasn't lost on angry and frightened parents who have clamored for the pair to face stiff consequences, such as expulsion or criminal charges.

    But the extreme youth of the perpetrators and the circumstances of the shooting mean there are no legal penalties for them. Under Nevada law, children 7 years old and younger cannot be charged with a crime. Clark County School District regulations do allow for the expulsion of students who endanger the safety of others, but the parents of the perpetrators said that option was not exercised with their sons.

    The mother of the boy who carried the gun to the bus stop and the father of the boy who fired it both said last week that while the two boys have been transferred to different schools, neither was expelled.

    Randle Jones, the mother of the boy who first obtained the gun, wouldn't discuss details of the shooting or explain where her son got the weapon.

    "He's 7 years old; there's nothing to be done," Jones said.

    Alfred Simmons, the father of the boy who fired the weapon, said district officials moved his son to a new school partly because of the fallout from the shooting.

    "They decided it might not be a good idea (to stay at Ries), because of other parents complaining about my son," Simmons said.

    School officials would not confirm or deny the statements made by Jones or Simmons, citing federal privacy laws regarding student records.

    Fritz Reese, director of the Clark County Department of Juvenile Justice Services, has been on the receiving end of several phone calls from concerned people who want to know why someone won't "lock those kids up."

    He explained that Nevada law doesn't permit children 7 years of age and younger to be charged with a crime. It's common practice across the nation not to prosecute juveniles until they are at least 8 years of age, he said. Even so, most crimes committed by children between the ages of 8 and 10 do not usually result in an arrest or charge.

    "Developmentally, a 7-year-old could be working at the level of a 3- or 4-year-old," Reese said. "Not in a physically adverse way, just in normal development."

    Reese said if a crime -- such as a gun-related incident -- is serious enough, it's often the parents who will be charged.

    "My first question was: 'How does a kid get access to a gun in the house?'" Reese said of the case involving the 7-year-old boys. "That's going to turn the focus to the caregiver."

    According to sources with knowledge of the police investigation, the student who brought the gun to the bus stop found the weapon in his home.

    The gun might belong to Jones' boyfriend, the sources said. Jones' son took the gun to the bus stop and hid it in shrubbery, the sources said.

    Simmons' son found the weapon under the bushes and thought it was a toy. Simmons said his son isn't afraid of guns, which is probably why he pulled the trigger. Their family is from Louisiana and often hunt and fish, he said.

    "That's the reason I don't have any (guns) in my house and don't keep them in my home," Simmons said. "I know he's anxious to use them when we're outdoors. He likes that stuff. So did I."

    Simmons said he spoke with Jones, who apologized for her son's actions.

    He said Jones told him her boyfriend was responsible for the weapon, and that she didn't know about the gun.

    "Apparently, the parent (Jones' boyfriend) who was responsible for the kid getting the gun has moved," Simmons said.

    According to the district attorney's office, no charges have been recommended against any adults in the case.

    Edward Goldman, the school district's associate superintendent for education services, said he could not discuss specific students or investigations. However, he did speak to the federal law and the district procedures that apply when students are involved in gun-related incidents.

    Federal law mandates a zero-tolerance policy for students who bring firearms onto school property. Students who do so must be expelled. If a student has a gun on a school bus or at school, the district would have no choice but to follow federal guidelines, Goldman said.

    That law does not apply to students who are on city streets or at bus stops. However, Goldman said district regulations do come into play in those kinds of cases.

    District regulations say possession of a firearm in a situation that could endanger other students is grounds for expulsion, he said. "The principal has no choice but to make a mandatory recommendation of expulsion."

    But the key word, Goldman stressed, is recommendation.

    After a school principal takes action, a member of Goldman's staff would meet with the student to decide if an expulsion recommendation should be upheld or modified.

    Goldman said that decision hinges on circumstances: If a child doesn't know what he's doing, can you hold him accountable?

    If Goldman's office upholds an expulsion recommendation, the Clark County School Board has the final vote.

    If board members approve an expulsion, the student is barred from attending public school in Nevada for at least one year. If the recommendation for expulsion is denied, Goldman and his staff will review the case and decide how to proceed.

    School Board Vice President Carolyn Edwards would not speak about the case, but said the difficulties of dealing with young children must be considered.

    "How much do they understand about what they did?" Edwards asked. "What is their cognition level, as far as really understanding? Do they have a concept it could actually hurt somebody?"

    The possibility of a 7-year-old facing expulsion is quite rare, district officials said. And because it's uncommon, there are limited options for schooling them in Nevada. All public schools in Nevada must honor an expulsion, Goldman said. Parents can't simply move their child to a different public school outside Clark County.

    Private school or home-schooling are options, but private school is expensive and parents may not be qualified to teach their children at home. However, all elementary students must be enrolled in some form of schooling, Goldman said. Parents can't legally let their children go without education for a year.

    "Another choice, theoretically, is to send him (an expelled student) to a jurisdiction outside of Nevada that would let him go to school," Goldman said. "But it's kind of a far-fetched option."

    If a student involved in a serious disciplinary case is not expelled, Goldman said they probably would be transferred to another district school where they would be subject to random searches. And no matter what, "they can't go back" to the school where the incident occurred, Goldman said.

    In the weeks since the bus stop shooting occurred, the outrage at Ries Elementary School has cooled, in part because parents now know that their children won't be in the same classrooms as the two involved children.

    On Nov. 13, the day of the shooting, some parents waiting for their children at the bus stop were angry and fearful, asking why the boys weren't jailed or charged with a crime. But last week, that attitude had mellowed.

    "It's not the fault of the kids," said Sara Cruz, grandmother of a Ries third-grader. "There's a gun in your house, and he's just a baby."

    Jeremy Brown, father of a second-grader and a parent volunteer in the school cafeteria, said that although he owns guns, he taught his son never to touch them. As an additional precaution: "He can't get to them," Brown said.

    Neither Cruz nor Brown wanted to see the boys involved in the shooting expelled. They did think the parents should be held accountable.

    "It should start with the parents that let their kids end up with guns," Brown said.

    Simmons said he understood the concern. His own son could have seriously injured himself because he thought the weapon was a toy.

    "I don't want people to think my son is a bad kid, or would ever hurt nobody. Bottom line is, he's just a kid."

    Contact reporter Mike Blasky at mblasky@reviewjournal.com or 702-383-0283.

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    K. Fullam wrote on January 04, 2010 12:01 PM: Dear Mr. Blasky,
    I am writing to comment on your article published on November 29, 2009, entitled "Ries Elementary: 7-year-olds get past shooting." In that article, you discount homeschooling as a viable option for parents of elementary school-aged children, citing this reason: "parents may not be qualified to teach their children at home."

    You fail to define the term "qualified" within your article. Regardless, I am sure you would be hard-pressed to find a scientifically-verified parent "qualification" which directly correlates to homeschooled children's academic achievement. The only exception I can muster is the "qualification" of being a dedicated, loving parent, which is a choice open to any parent considering homeschool options. The recent study, Progress Report 2009: Homeschool Academic Achievement and Demographics, clearly demonstrates that homeschoolers average more than thirty (yes, thirty) percentile points higher than the nationwide average in three key standardized examinations (California Achievement Test, Iowa Tests of Basic Skills, and Stanford Achievement Test). Further, the study shows that "issues such as student gender, parents’ education level, and family income had little bearing on the results of homeschooled students," (Slatter, 2009).

    The lack of research behind your statement regarding homeschooling only serves to further the misconception that specific professional "qualifications" are necessary for parents to successfully home-educate their children.

    Sincerely,
    Karen K. Fullam, PhD.
    Stay-at-home homeschooling mother

    Slatter, Ian (2009). "New nationwide study confirms homeschool academic achievement," http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/200908100.asp, accessed January 4, 2010.


    GRIM REAPER wrote on December 03, 2009 11:09 AM: Electric chair for all those involved!

    I will see those two adorable little munchkins soon!


    greg halstead wrote on November 30, 2009 10:39 AM: If you ask me all of the blame lands on the parent of the child who brought the gun to the bus stop. Children are currious and when they see something they want to try it. As an adult it is our responsibility to keep harmful items out of their hands unless supervised, I own many firearms and my children are familiar with them and have fired them in situations under my supervision. They know what they are and what they can do, there is no mystery about them. Unfortunately there are many children in this country that have no idea what a gun is other than what they have seen in a video game or on TV. And that is a problem, just like with any other part of their lives. Most parents will talk to their children about the dangers of drugs, strangers, and unprotected sex, but ignorance of what a firearm is by the parents leads to ignorance of the child.
    Next time you talk with your child, ask them if they know what a gun is and if they know what it is capable of doing. Inform them of the dangers and tell them if there are not any adults around to walk away and tell a responsible adult what has happened.


    Car319 wrote on November 30, 2009 06:58 AM: Reading a few of the comments, you people don't even stick to the article. A 7yr old child fired a real gun. Did he know what would happen if he had shot a person? Blame TV and video games. Not the color of skin. That’s immaterial. I agree it’s shocking for this to happen. But prosecute children!! The Parents need to be held responsible for this one.


    Abolish_public_education wrote on November 29, 2009 08:40 PM: AFAIK, CCSD receives the same funding level per student(>= $6,000/yr), regardless of student age/grade. The younger the student, the longer the duration of state funding CCSD can expect to receive for him. A seven year old student is worth ~8X that of a 17 year old ($50,000 vs $6,000, 10 yrs vs 1 yr). That is why CCSD is so eager to keep its hands on those two jokers, but doesn't care nearly as much about (teenage) dropouts. Note: the reason CCSD is eager to extend public education in the direction of preschoolers is because a 4 year old is marginally worth ~50% MORE than an 18 year old ($6,000 vs $4,300).

    "Zero tolerance", huh? No doubt the regulations also require the federal government to reimburse school districts for state money forgone due to expulsions. CCSD would *profit* by expelling older students for gun violations.


    LOL's mom wrote on November 29, 2009 08:35 PM: Yes, Josh, LOL has been drinking. He is incoherent. How did you know?


    Josh wrote on November 29, 2009 07:43 PM: You are right LOL, it was a black man who gunned down the four cops in Washington. That message was pretty incoherent, have you been drinking?


    LOL wrote on November 29, 2009 07:21 PM: you racist people are great. according to you logic since most (insert negative condition here) are (insert race here), all the people that belong to that group are stupid, criminals, dirty, etc., by that logic we should jail all the men. no matter how bad the statistics on crime are between the races, its nothing compared to the disparity between males and females.
    if anyone should be profiled or jailed, or whatever it is you want to do to "them" , all of us men, should be the first. honestly now, you are all idiots. the only reason no one ever uses males, in their demographic arguments, are because most of the people promoting the hate and "true statistics" as you may call it, are guys. Well that is the truth we all now, WE, MEN , MALES, are the ones that commit the most crimes.


    Let them Starve wrote on November 29, 2009 04:08 PM: I wish we could let bad people (thugs etc) go a little hungry for once. Remove the entitlement to food, housing, schooling, police protection, all of which thugs do not pay for. If thugs had to pay for it, it would not be taken for granted.


    Abolish_public_education wrote on November 29, 2009 03:49 PM: [Mandatory expulsion] does not apply to students who are on city streets or at bus stops.

    Bureaucratic and legalistic, promulgated by CCSD lawyers. Once again, CCSD shows its monopolistic arrogance. "Don't bother us. What you don't know won't hurt you." It knows that parents -- whose kids are drafted into school -- have little choice but to send them to one of CCSD's offerings; especially *poor* parents.

    CCSD is basically saying that $100K of funding is worth more than the personal safety of hundreds of other kids. Don't let CCSD use your kids as guinea pigs. DEMAND to know which skoolz are being used as landfill. If CCSD gives you the brush off, PULL your kids OUT. When CCSD loses enough money ($1M should do it) they'll become a lot more openminded about transferring those two boys to California.

    If CCSD transferred those boys to rich white skoolz, there'd be an outcry you would not believe. All of a sudden, expulsion wouldn't look so drastic after all.


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