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Concealed-weapon permit holders talk about Scott case at forum
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LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
Updated: Oct. 1, 2010 | 8:08 a.m.
Erik Scott's death at the hands of Las Vegas police officers will not change how some Nevadans carry their concealed weapons.
Those asked to comment about Scott at Thursday's concealed-weapon permit holders forum, a teleconference originating in Carson City and seen in Las Vegas and Elko, said Scott did not act appropriately when he was approached by Las Vegas officers outside a busy Summerlin Costco in July.
"The rules are pretty plain," said George, who declined to give his last name. "If three officers point a gun at you, you put your hands up, and that's it."
Asked to rate on a scale of one to 10 how Scott's death would affect their own behavior while carrying guns in public, three permit holders gave the same score: "zero."
The attendees, approached at the Grant Sawyer State Building before the morning question-and-answer session, were unanimous that Scott's death was his own fault. Some of the "fine print" regarding concealed weapons can be muddy, they said, but the key points are clear: Don't carry weapons when you've been using alcohol or drugs. Don't carry weapons into a private residence or business that restricts firearms. And if you're approached by a police officer, never reach for your weapon, they said.
"He was carrying the weapon illegally as soon as he put it on his hip while under the influence of narcotics," George said.
The Scott shooting was not directly discussed in the forum, but many permit holders and would-be permit holders expressed passionate opinions on the circumstances.
One permit holder, Paul, who said he carries a .40-caliber Smith & Wesson semiautomatic, said Scott's first mistake was allowing a Costco employee to see his weapon. Even if Scott had broken store policy by carrying the gun inside, no one would have perceived a threat or called police if it were not visible.
"By him doing that, he drew his harbingers of death right to where he was," said Paul, who declined to give his last name.
Permit holders are trained to keep their hands visible, not to reach for their gun when approached by a police officer, Paul said.
Paul said he was taught to keep his wallet in his left back pocket -- opposite of his handgun -- so that if he instinctively reached for his permit, an officer wouldn't assume he was going for his weapon, he said.
"Safety is the big thing, for yourself and the officer," he said.
Chester, who recently moved to Nevada, said many residents are unaware that it's legal to openly carry a handgun in this state.
That can be difficult for gun owners who have to explain themselves to those uneducated about the law, he said.
"You live in Nevada, and this is how it is," he said. "If you don't like it, go to Chicago. Go to Washington."
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Response to comment posted by
Bill.Adams wrote on October 01, 2010 08:53 AM:
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The question is "was Metro policemen justified in shooting Scott because of his actions at the moment he was shot," not because of his previous actions and conditions: "Scott was a criminal and should be veiwed as such: 1) Two domestic battery charges, one of them a felony. 2) Forged prescriptions to get the drugs he was addicted to. (Felony) 3) Assault with a deadly weapon on a police officer. (Felony) 4) Did not have a CCW permit for one of the weapons he had concealed. (Felony) 5) Carrying a gun while intoxicated. 6) He was prohibited under federal law from carrying a gun due to his drug addiction. (Federal Offense - Felony) 7) Pointed a gun at his own neighbor!"
Would you have a criminal shot and killed by Metro because of his past crimes or because of his actions at the time of the shooting? You are probably correct, Scott was shot by policemen because he point a gun at them. So how does what Scott did besides pointing the gun at policemen come into play? If the policement were justified in shooting Scott because of any reason other than he presented a present and imminent threat of death or grave harm to someone, then the policemen were vendicated for the wrong reasons.
As far as I can see, there were three different factors in Erik Scott's death. First, Mr. Scott drew unnecessary attention to himself. When carrying, he should have been nothing but humble. Second; people who have no interest in carrying a weapon, concealed or otherwise, have no ideas what the rights and responsibilities are. Anybody carrying must understand that and act accordingly (see #1). Otherwise you will likely be reported as a gun-waving maniac when it is not the case. Then you can expect to be met with a completely inappropriate response which is finally third; The Metro officers, responding on inaccurate information, set up an ambush to apprehend a gun-waving maniac. When this was not the case, they failed to adjust their tactics accordingly, and a totally unnecessary shootout ensued. For those of you who disagree with this final point, please tell me what your viewpoint would have been had one of your family been killed by an errant bullet fired by the apprehending officers. Cost of business to apprehend someone guilty of opening water bottles?
I am amazed, as being someone who has carried a concealed firearm for over 40 years, as a law enforcement officer and retired, of the all the concealed weapons permit holders, who act like they should, don't carry two guns, and who avoid calling attention to themselves, keep up the conditions you chose to accept to be able to carry a concealed weapon!
What part of "shall not be infringed..." don't people understand??
After reading the comments on this page I am reminded of something Bem Franklin said:
"Wise men speak out because they have something to say. Fools speak out because they have to say something."
LVBuilder, become acquainted with Nevada 'castle doctrine' (or lack of) before you go shooting an intruder in your house.
I did not see a CCW card among the items shown on TV news. There was a driver license and several "blue cards" but no CCW permit.
CCW classes that I attended covered quite well the how, when, where, and who of concealed firearms laws in NV. Those not familiar with the laws (apparently this includes some policemen) have personal opinions that are quite different from the laws. From the bits of testimony I saw I'd say Scott didn't attend the CCW class or didn't remember the information given in the class. I will not voice an opinion on whether Scott or Metro was correct. I don't have all the information; neither does the public, yet.
Wow, what a refreshing point of view. Instead of this Dogmatic way of displacing the blame to Metro, or Costco employees whom feared for their lives.
Real men need no -------
PERMIT for a Constuitional and God given right. Wimps with permits will be on the first train to an American Auschwitz.
Do crooks government agents and the police carry a permit?
Without the second ammendment the rest is just words on paper.
Hey LVBuilder! Your comments reveal that you are the ignorant one. The CCW permit requires far more than a $100.00 fee: it requires classroom training, a written exam, actual gun range proficiency examination, legal knowledge, criminal background investigations, fingerprinting... Go ahead and be afraid, but be afraid of the right things and for the right reasons, and don't forget, an armed society is a polite society. Guns are like free speech: less is not better. I feel safer knowing that there are people around me who are trained and able to legally protect themselves and others in a pinch. Permit holders are not the problem, illegal gun owners and irresponsible people are. Fear them.