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Former Area 51 workers talk planes

Cold War missions in spotlight, not UFOs

Mystique about alien spaceships and little green men at Area 51 took a back seat Thursday to the real men who worked there for the CIA and the spy planes they flew during the Cold War.

In fact, a question about a link between the secret installation 90 miles north of Las Vegas and speculation about flying saucer debris and dead aliens from a 1947 crash site near Roswell, N.M., was glossed over as fiction during a panel discussion at the Atomic Testing Museum.


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  • The discussion capped a two-day event at the museum titled "The Spy Planes of Groom Lake."

    The panel of former Area 51 workers included test pilots, engineers and a mission planner who were recruited by the Central Intelligence Agency in the 1960s for development of the A-12 and later the SR-71 Blackbird.

    "The job is to get good photography of the targets you're running against," said 81-year-old Ray Haupt, a retired Air Force brigadier general who flew both planes and their predecessor, the U-2.

    Haupt recalled one experience after an SR-71 engine flamed out.

    "Suddenly your helmet was bouncing between the two sides of the canopy like a basketball. That got your attention," he said. "It was a rough ride."

    CIA pilot Jack Layton said flying at three times the speed of sound, however, could be "very smooth unless the air itself is bumpy."

    Haupt, of Tucson, Ariz., said he preferred the SR-71 because it "could get the job done" like the A-12 but had a better navigation system to keep the plane on course.

    While the SR-71 was an Air Force plane, the A-12 belonged to the CIA. The aircraft was a high-flying jet made of a titanium alloy to resist high temperatures while flying at supersonic speeds as it photographed targets and evaded enemy missiles.

    After the plane was successfully tested at Groom Lake, it was used during the Vietnam War in the mid- to late-1960s to find surface-to-air missile sites.

    "We flew 2,850 missions out of Groom Lake that the world did not know about," said electrical engineer T.D. Barnes of Henderson, president of Roadrunners Internationale, a group of former "black project" workers that co-sponsored the event.

    Barnes recounted the learning curve that designers of the A-12 experienced, particularly with making planes out of titanium alloy metal instead of aluminum. Tools that could penetrate the hard metal had to be developed to build the aircraft.

    "We soon realized the United States did not have good enough quality of (titanium), so this plane we were building for the sole purpose of flying over the Soviet Union, we went to Russia and bought our titanium. They had no idea what we were using it for, but the metal ... did come from our adversary," he said.

    Mission planner Sam Pizzo recalled starting from scratch when building the A-12.

    "We had to rethink all the things we had to do," he said. "Remember, this plane came to Groom Lake in boxes. It had never been flown."

    It wasn't until 2007, when the CIA lifted a veil of secrecy about the A-12, that those who were involved with the project were allowed to talk about certain aspects of it.

    Barnes said that he has mixed emotions about that decision.

    "We still don't talk much about it," he said. "We can talk about the projects we were on but not the location."

    Contact reporter Keith Rogers at krogers@reviewjournal.com or 702-383-0308.

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    DAVE n UT not the OTHER DAVE wrote on October 15, 2009 06:17 AM: "Neo" = It was only a few years ago that station KBAK-TV [Channel 29 News in Bakersfield, CA!] "broke" the news story that the U-2 production line was in a non-descript warehouse, adjacent to Meadows Field in that fair city! Heretofore, the public had only been told 'officially' about the U-2 test models being built at Lockheed's "Skunk Works" - then in Burbank! That very key distinction between 'test' and 'production' had not been made, until Channel 29's story by DON CLARK reporting from the anchor chair! THEREFORE: I am fully supporting ALL EFFORTS @ Las Vegas Smithsonian ATM and within the U.S. National Archives and Records Administration nationally to "QUICKLY DE-CLASSIFY" as much of the "cold war" archival data as possible, BUT without revealing methods nor sources!


    Dave wrote on October 15, 2009 03:40 AM: To Anybody Remember:

    The skinny fellow with glasses is named Bob Lazar.


    Neo wrote on October 13, 2009 12:11 PM: Just because these brave gentlemen didn't work with Alien technology, does not mean it wasn't there. Every project is HIGHLY compartmentalized to the minute level, I doubt anyone who worked on building the spy planes had any idea what they were working on.


    DAVE wrote on October 13, 2009 03:32 AM: ANGELS ARE REAL, too! ;-)


    Aliens_are _real wrote on October 12, 2009 04:12 AM: Art Bell hosts the show from time to time. He's still in the Phillipines with his wife and child.

    Actually I like all the C2C hosts for different reasons.

    I do think there is/was something odd and interesting going on out there.


    LOL wrote on October 11, 2009 03:02 PM: Both Bob abd Ray are aliens. They were sent here to conduct intel for their planet. Al who heard the "panel" will be tested soon....AAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!


    Mike wrote on October 11, 2009 12:35 PM: Interesting!


    DAVE wrote on October 11, 2009 07:12 AM: "FRED" - It's hard to have 'faith' in these times. However, ther are still TOUSADS of "down winder" suvivors ad their family memers - d=from the document 5,000+ weapons tests just in NV -- whostill see fatal medical care fo their cancers, so far not forthcoming from the US GOvenment, yet! FURTHER - In ke's "Farewell Address" - he spoke - IN TWO PARTS - of "future dangers" (most often quoted) - FIRST: The military-industrial complex, which hasben used by academics for both personal & professional financial gain for too many decades IMO! BUT IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH: Ike also warned of "an equal and opposite danger" = A scientific- technical elite, who would use its [atomic & nuclear weapons expertise] to unduly influence public policy! LEST WE FORGET! The National Archives & Records Administration details even now slowly becoming available for scrutiny are showing that Ike's then-Vice President [Richard M. Nixon] DID NOT FORGET 'lessons learned' during his presidential administration, starting anuary, 1969.


    Fred wrote on October 10, 2009 01:32 PM: I'd find it funny that this meeting took place at the atomic museum. Been a worker was injured now at that location and the department of labor indicated that location had nothing to do with the test site. Somebody needs to get their stories straight. The land either belonged to the test site, or the Air Force it seems that the ownership of the location jumped from one organization to the next depending on whether the news good or bad. Also after Francis Gary Powers was shot down in a U-2 aircraft and the subsequent destruction of our relationship with Russia our government continued to break international law over 2850 times putting us at risk of war, it's very easy to think that they were able to violate environmental laws at this same location. But the department of labor stated that there is no proof that environmental laws were broken, so I can only assume that none of the activity discussed these meetings ever did, this also must be a lie. A bunch of old men getting together and telling lies.


    DAVE one moe time wrote on October 10, 2009 05:27 AM: BOB 'L' = How much - per your post - of "the [aforementioned] inventories" have been relocated out of Area 51 -- to "points East" near US Navy facility @ 'PAX RIVER', for instance? Postscript = Miss both YOU and ART BELL on "Coast to Coast" radio talk these days! :-)


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