John wrote on October 29, 2007 11:13 AM: Poker Player,

I am not disputing that cheating goes on in internet poker. If the problem is insurmountable then the appropriate federal regulator (legalization would require a federal regulatory scheme) should then ban poker because it cannot ensure a fair game. The legislation banning internet gaming did not ban gaming because it was concerned about the fairness of the games. That may have been some of the pretext but this was nothing more than legislation aimed at the religious right and the religious right's desire to impose their sense of morality on the rest of us.

Douglas,

I think you missed my point. A licensed operator would not risk its license for its brick and mortar casinos by operating an internet casino that did not have fair games or permitted minors to gamble. Nevada Gaming could revoke a license under such circumstances.

As to your point regarding minors gambling on the internet, minor also attempt to gamble in bricks and mortar casinos. Any operator, which would have to be licensed by the federal government, would have the affirmative duty to ensure that minors do not gamble same as they have the duty to prevent minors from gambling in their brick and mortar casinos. Furthermore, just because some minors may gamble on the internet, that still does not justify a ban for adults. I assume you do not advocate the shutting down of the Nevada gaming industry because some minors may have gambled in the casinos. Lastly it is ultimately the job of parents to ensure that their minor children do not gamble on the internet. Gambling on the net requires a source of funding. Most 3.5 year olds do not have credit cards or debit cards.

douglas wrote on October 29, 2007 09:35 AM: the state of nevada strictly regulates fixed base, "brick and mortar" casino licensees.

such protection against fraud, gaffed games, collusion between players and/or site owners is almost zero on the internet. many of the site operators are "offshore". the reason is not one of "cheap rent" rather "sovereignty" from legal process and other countries' laws.

similarly, a u.s. citizen has only very limited rights to dispute any transaction or gaming decision when on the premises of a "tribal" casino.

as to risking some "license" on the internet, that's actually humorous. comparing a billion dollar premises and a laptop with an accommodation mailbox address doesn't merit discussion.

again, since the internet is accessible by children ["half the time my child knows more about the computer than i do, and she is only 3 1/2"], minors absolutely will gamble on the internet, given the opportunity.

if the "poker stars" only want to preserve the internet game because of the intellectual aspects, then there need not be *any* funds wagered. right ?

poker player wrote on October 29, 2007 09:33 AM: While that may be true from the side of an MGM type corp, and their execs and employees may not be involved, it would be virtually impossible to stop the same style of cheating by players. The only thing the big corps could do better is contol customer information and make it harder for cheaters to "target" larger depositors.

Think of a live game where cheaters do try to signal each other,play in teams, etc. At least they can be seen and caught. In an internet game the cheaters can be anywhere in the world, you can't see them cheat, you can hardly ever catch them and newer technology makes it easier and cheaper to set up a system capable of "raping" honest players without the Parent Operating company having a clue.

If you think internet gaming, poker included doesn't include large scale cheating, I have a deceased multi billionaire ex client that I just need to name a next of kin to award his last assets of 86,983,965 US dollars to. The fee for this will only be 10% of your final award and I can get everything started with a $863.99 processing fee. Contact for details

John wrote on October 29, 2007 09:02 AM: Poker Player,

Strict government regulation would cure the ills you spoke of. MGM Mirage for example would not risk its gaming licenses to cheat a few customers of relatively (from MGM's perspective)small amounts of money if it operated an internet gaming site. Legalizing internet gambling would prevent these problems because most players would rather play on a known operator's site to prevent these types of problems. Making internet gambling illegal gives the dishonest operators an opportunity to cheat patrons who just want a place to play in a safe secure environment.

Douglas,

Pretty much the same answer to you as Poker Player. Known operators would not risk their gaming licenses to facilitate gambling by minors. Legalizing internet gambling and letting the large US operators enter the market coupled with government regulation should minimize the risks of underage gaming.

douglas wrote on October 29, 2007 08:18 AM: if on line gambling is permitted, then absolutely, positively, there must be no laws regulating minimum ages for patrons in casinos. prohibiting minors to gamble in casinos but allowing it on the web, discriminates against all those who would prefer to play in a "live" casino.

and since alcoholic beverages might occasionally be considered to be "medicinal", then the regulations regarding mail order/internet sales of liquor must also be abolished. or should minors be excluded from health ?

it's obvious that the "poker stars" have a financial agenda in permitting unfettered access to internet gambling. the more publicity, the higher "purses" in tournaments. and, it appears that several "sponsors" of on line poker sites are actually owners, partners, or at least, commissioned participants, based on player action.

poker player wrote on October 29, 2007 08:09 AM: I have owned 2 internet poker sites that were on a MAJOR internet poker network. I was invited to Costa Rica to see the parent operations. I was also shown how certain customers were cheated, one to the tune of 1.5 million in about a year. The tournaments maybe be "legit" but I saw several examples of cheating by the very operators of the Internet poker rooms. I witnessed first hand cheating that effects the whole Poker Room Network that based in America's Card room offices. It was explained to me that this was common practice among those privvy to the account information and deposit and playing habits of the regular players..

I am no longer in the business and haven't been since my "partner" stole the sites (court case pending) as easily as the networks steal from the players.

Believe what you want but I wintessed first hand the cheating, tried to report it to everyone from Ongame (parent network of poker room) to Gambling911.com, e-zine. NO ONE WOULD REPORTT OR INVESTIGATE. Ongame wouldn't even return an email on phone calll regarding the situation after multiple attemps.

At first I would have been one to say that internet poker should be legal, a right for adults to do what they want at home, but in reality it is like saying that sending Nigerian Scam letters and fake Lottery winning notices should be legal because all are just as much a rip off of the average Joe's hard earned money.

Joe wrote on October 29, 2007 07:34 AM: When they can tax it, they will make it legal

Mark wrote on October 29, 2007 07:20 AM: Aren't we tired of a government that constantly interferes in our lives? Decent people have no more use for it at all.

Doug wrote on October 29, 2007 06:53 AM: Seems like everything we do has to be monitored by Big Brother to protect us from ourselves.The real proplem is when our actions don't go in a favorable way to us then we ask someone to bail us out.If you can't pay the price (healthwise or financially)for the the activity you choose,don't call anyone to bail you out.We make bad decisions when it comes to alchohol,drugs,gambling,buying houses,automobiles,smoking,and even our eating habits.Old Ptoverb"If your going to play,your going to have to pay".

John wrote on October 29, 2007 06:49 AM: Barney Frank is right. The government has no business banning internet gambling. Government does have a legitimate purpose in regulating internet gambling to make sure the owners of the sites are reputable, the games are fair, wagers are paid and underage persons do not gamble.

This was nothing more than the Republican majority (at the time) pandering to the religious right. Religious groups seem to have no problem telling other people how to behave. Too bad their own leadership sometimes doesn't follow their own advice.