Jon Hamel wrote on July 26, 2007 08:05 PM: Joe C wrote: "Damn it Hamel stop using words I have to look up. You just wasted the battery in my Seiko dictionary. Sophisms, Balkanized, Polemic."

I couldn't think of better words to say what I meant to say. Just attempting to be precise. As everyone is aware, we are limited in the length of our responses. By the way, thanks for the complement! Everything we can do to raise the bar on the content of these threads are worth the effort!

Jon Hamel wrote on July 26, 2007 07:12 AM: Douglas Democrat wrote: “If this is a reference to the famous Grover Norquist quote that government should be so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub...no thank you. You can't run a country of 300 million people that way.”

Nope . . . I would argue for a proper Constitutional Government that operates within enumerated powers granted to it by the Constitution. What I object to is the Rule of Man, i.e. the concept of a Living Constitution as invented in the Courts, and our current Mixed Economic system.

Douglas Democrat wrote: “If having safe food (USDA), safe medicine (FDA), clean water (EPA) and planes that don't crash (FAA and NTSB) means putting up with the rest...then I'll put up with the rest. ”

Government due to its nature is an insensitive brute. I agree that it is necessary in society, but due to its nature, needs to be controlled. The Courts, Police, and Legislature are all proper elements of Government. However, to give the Government regulatory authority guarantees that the Government becomes a protection racket, and pimp to special interests. Consider the alternatives to Government regulation as is being done by private organizations. The ASME was created at the request of our government to create our boiler codes in the mid 19 th century. The Organizations that created the United Building Code and the Electrical Code are both private. The use of Government to create regulation has the effect of creating a pay for play environment for special interests. This element of our Mixed Economy is known as Economic Fascism, is one of the most negative anti-competitive elements of our current system. I will continue to argue that Government is the cause of many problems in our society today. To fix these problems, we need less, not more Government.

Joe C wrote on July 25, 2007 08:14 PM: Damn it Hamel stop using words I have to look up. You just wasted the battery in my Seiko dictionary.
Sophisms, Balkanized, Polemic.

Douglas Democrat wrote on July 25, 2007 04:22 PM: "So, I repeat again . . . it's time we throw the bums out, and that we put in a political hatchet man to "reset" our government back to a manageable size."

If this is areference to the famous Grover Norquist quote that government should be so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub...no thank you. You can't run a country of 300 million people that way.

If having safe food (USDA), safe medicine (FDA), clean water (EPA) and planes that don't crash (FAA and NTSB) means putting up with the rest...then I'll put up with the rest.

Steve wrote on July 25, 2007 04:16 PM: Yes, oh ignorant one, the polls ARE and ALWAYS HAVE BEEN for Congress as a whole. However, as a whole, Congress has the lowest ratings in history since the RAT majority took over. What don't you understand about that? Even YOU can't be that stupid.

Steve wrote on July 25, 2007 04:15 PM: Douglas Democrat: Who in the world cares if anyone is "really starting to annoy" you? You are not now nor will you EVER be MY boss! As far as I'm concerned, you can eat sh** and die, not necessarily in that order. You're just a typical "head in the sand" sheep Democrat incapable of thinking for yourself and just regurgitate the "party line" rhetoric.

Jon Hamel wrote on July 25, 2007 04:05 PM: What said: " What Douglas Democrat is saying can be easily seen on the linked bar graph. Seems the facts are, unfortunately, on his side on this argument."

Douglas Democrat said: "You're misunderstanding the purpose of a cloture vote. Cloture is used to deliberately end debate and move a bill to the floor for a vote. By refusing to agree to end debate and (under current Senate Rules) filibustering procedurally, the Republican minority is deliberately obstructing the process. Even on bills that are widely popular (like the bill adopting the 9/11 Commission recommendations, which passed 97-0), Republicans are forcing cloture votes by dragging out debate on anything that may even be remotely popular."

I agree that both comments are true. It does not mean however, that the subject legislation is good for the People of the Country. Perhaps I should of said that the arguments appeared to be popular sophisms, and that my belief is that the arguments need to focus on the merits of the bills before Congress. But the fact is that Politically, our country has Balkanized and very little common ground remains in the middle. So, I repeat again . . . it's time we throw the bums out, and that we put in a political hatchet man to "reset" our government back to a manageable size. Tongue in cheek, I also confess to engage in soft Polemic writing in this type of forum . . . and to that I apologize, well perhaps, I don't.

Joe C wrote on July 25, 2007 02:51 PM: Doug
I think most understand what Cloture is used for, and the fact that both parties filibuster.
What you don’t seem to get that neither party works for the average working American. From government regulators responsible for the safety of our food getting trips from the same people they regulate. Or congressmen who take free vacations from businesses that are affected by bills in Congress.
What you are defending doesn’t make sense. We are not represented and while some may claim one party is better than other; it’s hardly something to brag about.
We have a government out of control, and pick any party.
I wish I had something to be proud of concerning government but honestly there is nothing. Not one leader possibly Ron Paul or Vermont’s Senator Sanders.

What?! wrote on July 25, 2007 02:48 PM: Mr Hamel,

What Douglas Democrat is saying can be easily seen on the linked bar graph. Seems the facts are, unfortunately, on his side on this agrument.

I agree with your suggestion that we throw out the whole lot of 'em!


filibustersgoingtohistoriclevels

Douglas Democrat wrote on July 25, 2007 01:32 PM: Douglas Democrat uses the fact that twice as many “cloture” votes have been cast, yet he seems to forget that it is the Majority leader Sen. Reid who initiates cloture votes.

You're misunderstanding the purpose of a cloture vote. Cloture is used to deliberately end debate and move a bill to the floor for a vote. By refusing to agree to end debate and (under current Senate Rules) filibustering procedurally, the Republican minority is deliberately obstructing the process. Even on bills that are widely popular (like the bill adopting the 9/11 Commission recommendations, which passed 97-0), Republicans are forcing cloture votes by dragging out debate on anything that may even be remotely popular.

And I see you ignored the part where the Republicans deliberately obstructing bills with majority support is hypocrisy since they said Democrats who did the same thing were "thwarting the rule of the majority".

And Steve, drop the RATS comment. It's not funny, and you are starting to really annoy me. You seem to forget that the polls are for Congress as a whole - a Congress where Minority Leader McConnell has made clear Democrats need 60 votes to do anything except symbolic acts or bending to Chimpy McFlightsuit's will.

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